Confused about supply

[WriterofDreams]

I had my gorgeous baby boy 3 weeks ago. After a rocky start to breastfeeding he's become quite a pro now, especially during the day. He's not a good sleeper at night and if I was BFing all night I would have a regular nights of complete sleeplessness. I have a very mild neurological problem which means I absolutely must have sleep. If I don't I can develop stroke-like symptoms which aren't serious but which obviously are very debilitating. So I go off to sleep at about 8 and my husband gives DS formula if he wants it until 1 and then I take over again. This has been working fine so far.

I have found this forum a great help but one thing confuses me. I keep reading that formula can "impact supply" but then at the same time I see people being reassured that there is no danger that they won't have enough milk, that the breast will make as much as is required. So what do people mean when they say things can impact supply? Does that mean there won't be enough breastmilk? DS seems to be managing ok on what I have but I do worry about this.

I'm no expert (first timer with a 12w DD) but I think they mean that your supply won't increase if you use formula, but if you are always planning on doing the formula feed 8 -1 then you don't need your supply to improve at these stages. I think it is more a problem for people that plan to use a one-off formula when the baby seems extra hungry which is then counter-productive as your body doesn't realise that the baby requires more milk. I imagine your supply will tailor perfectly so plenty of milk at other times when the baby is feeding regularly and then less milk between 8 and 1 when you are not needing to feed.

Hope that makes sense and that someone more knowledgable is along soon!

bump

Writer - hope I can explain.

Yes, formula does have an impact on supply. In the early weeks and months of breastfeeding, round-the-clock stimulation of the system is needed to ensure sufficient milk. The milk needs to be removed often and effectively because milk that's made and which is not removed suppresses the supply - you can read a fuller explanation at www.kellymom.com, but it's basically to do with full breasts sending a 'message' to the pituitary to 'stop making milk'.

Long gaps between breastfeeds decrease the supply of milk, and while this is fine with very well-established breastfeeding (bf that has been going on well for many months), with a baby who is taking solids and who does not rely on breastfeeding, and who in any case may take less, it may not be fine with early breastfeeding. The production line tends to slow down and stop altogether if it's not stimulated.

Now, some mothers find their supply still remains even if they have introduced formula right at the start - they keep that single bottle as part of their routine, and everything still works just fine with the breastfeeding. In your own case, it sounds like you have a gap of maybe 5-6 hours once a day when the baby has formula, and your bf remains sufficient. For other women, this would just not work.

It's especially likely not to work if formula is introduced as a response to worries about milk supply - the baby has formula, the baby sleeps a long time, the mother thinks 'I'll give him some more as this proves my breastfeeding is not enough' and in addition to the impact of this one bottle, she adds further impact with another one.

The breast only makes 'as much milk as required' if the baby is enabled to feed often and effectively. Once you start messing about with this system, all bets are off.

Some women do manage fine, and maintain bf, despite the formula, but you can't predict which ones this will apply to.

As I say, in your case, you have a good reason for ensuring you have adequate rest, and the gap between your evening breastfeeds is not making a difference to the fact your baby breastfeeds the rest of the time - not everyone would be sure of this happening, though.

Hope this helps!

Thank you so much tiktok, that makes a lot of sense :) I do enjoy breastfeeding and really want to keep it up so I don't want to do anything that'll affect it. I can't really avoid giving formula much as I might want to - I went for a bit longer last night without sleep to give my DH a bit of a break and my vision is a bit affected today so I know I can't risk trying to BF all the time :( I'm trying not to stress about it too much and just enjoy my gorgeous boy, it just annoys me that it's all a bit of a guessing game!

Would expressing be an option? I'm currently expressing for 1 bottle a day that we give last thing to get DD to settle and give me a break - without it she'll be cluster5 feeding half the night (as well as all evening) and I also have a health condition that means no sleep has real implications. I'm getting up at night during DD's "long sleep" (5-6 hours) to express but it's a short defined waking, not endless feeding followed by ages settling the baby. Atm my supply seems to be coping...we shall see.

How old is your DD Japhrimel? Unfortunately DS is sleeping for maximum two hours at a time and at night he sometimes sleeps for only half an hour at a time so I don't really get a chance to express IYSWIM. I know it's a bit wussy but I have an aversion to expressing (I did it quite a lot near the start when I was ill for a few days) and I prefer to give formula. I did have a look at the Kellymom website and I was interested to read about the "fussy time" - I think DH might tend to overfeed DS with formula during this fussy time so I'll have a chat to him about this. I do feel a bit guilty about giving formula but DH quite rightly reminds me that without it I could end up quite ill. I just want to work out the best system for all of us :)

My DD is 6 weeks. I've been expressing from the start as she was in scbu for 3 days and was then on bottle top-ups for a while.

Probably a good idea for your DH to give the absolute minimum formula possible in the evening, so as not to put the baby off breastfeeds. Maybe use a dummy too?

Yeah we use a dummy which works quite well. I think you're right moonunit - I think DH tends to stuff him with formula to keep him quiet (understandably I suppose) but I'll have to ask him to ride out fussiness rather than reaching for the bottle straight away. Thankfully in spite of the formula he seems to breastfeed quite well and will even breastfeed and then take a little bit of bottle or vice versa if circumstances call for it - he seems quite adaptable. His weight gain has been good so far so I feel comfortable that he is getting a good supply of BM. The only real problem is the fact that he tends to drop off during a feed especially during the night but wakes up shortly after I put him down looking for more, and this can go on for hours :( If he would feed more consistently and then sleep for maybe 3 hours at a time then I could BF more as I would get enough sleep in one go to keep my symptoms at bay.

Writer, is he definitely waking for more milk? Maybe he just doesn't feel secure sleeping apart from you. At that age both of mine would wake up if they weren't in contact with me, so we ended up cosleeping. They slept for longer and I got much more rest that way.

I find cosleeping really hard, I don't feel comfortable at all. There really isn't room in the bed for me, my DH and DS and I don't think he likes it much either really as he doesn't settle very well. Doric, do you have a partner that slept with both you and your babies? If so, how did you manage it?

I found the same as doric - I couldn't put my ds down to sleep away from me, he needed to be snuggled up. I think it's quite common in the early weeks. At first ds and I took the bed and DP slept elsewhere, but as I got more confident we all slept together, though ds was on my side rather than between us.

We had a bedside cot which made things easier, and after a couple of months I could put ds in the cot rather than right next to me. At 5 months he moved into his own room with no problems - so don't worry that co-sleeping early on will create bad habits or mean you never get your bed back!

When all three of you were in the bed moonunit what position was ds in? Just lying next to you, or sort of in your arms?

Initially I was so tired I'd doze off while feeding in bed, so decided to at least do it safely. We've come to the best arrangement for us through trial and error, but now it's a cotbed with one side removed, hard against my side of the bed. There's a small gap between the mattresses which I've packed with rolled blankets. Baby in a grobag, me with the covers up to my waist and a cardi on! For the first month or two the cotbed wasn't used because they just wanted to sleep in the crook of my lower arm, but with time it gets easier to feed to sleep then slide them into the cot and enjoy a bit of sleep! DP has been unaffected except he's got to be the runner if I need a drink in the night!

I should add that we have a kingsize bed and there's absolutely no room left in our bedroom but we don't care as long as we're asleep!

I'd lie on my side with one arm around ds at a right angle above his head, and one leg bent up underneath him. My arm and leg were above and below him rather than him lying on me. When he was very little he'd lie on his side facing me, but now he tends to lie on his back and just turn his head towards me to feed.

Hmm that sounds good Doric and MoonUnit. I have fallen asleep with DS in the crook of my arm when I feed him lying down but I'm really afraid that he'll pitch forward and smother himself on my chest! Am I being a bit too anxious? I do have a cotbed that I could bring in and wedge up against the bed to give more space, that might help. I did try cosleeping for the first few nights while DH slept in the spare room but it didn't seem to work very well plus I don't sleep well without DH in the room, and the same goes for him (what sops we are lol). I might give a few things a try over the next week or so, see what works. The more I can BF him the better :)

Do try some things out to see what suits you. It will be no time before he's a great big lump who pretty much helps himself and you will worry much less! I think you'll find you sleep quite lightly but it's definitely better than being up every half an hour.