Nanny goat formula

[papillonrouge]

Posting this on both the allergies and feeding boards...

I am pretty sure my ds (6.5mo) has a cows milk protein allergy. This is undiagnosed as we are waiting for a referral but he has been ebf until 6mo when we tried him on some formula mixed with baby rice. He instantly vomitted and came up in hives all over his face and neck. Yesterday I treid putting a blob of milk from my cereal bowl on his forehead and within minutes it was red and blistered. He has had excema from about 3.5mo and my brother was dairy allergic as a baby.

I am trying to express as much bm as possible but find this a real drag and would love to give formula occasionally. I understand that goats milk formula is controversial and have read lots of the previous threads on here. Three questions really:

1. I get the impression that the main concern with goats milk formula is that if your baby is cows milk allergic then he is likely to be goats milk allergic too. Is this the only concern? If so, I am happy to buy some and do a skin test.

2. Anyone out there who has a cows milk allergic baby who has tried goats milk? Did your lo have the same reaction or did they tolerate the goats milk? And I am referring specifically to allergic babies here, not ones with intolerance.

3. If goats milk formula is a no go what else would you recommend?

Thanks for any help!

Don't really have any advice or experience for you but thought that this might help

Have you talked to a Bfing Counsellor papillon?

JJJ - a bfc cannot help with this sort of thing...allergies and their treatment is outside a bfc's boundaries.

Where are you, papillonrouge?

Nanny (goat formula) can no longer be imported to UK (whole EU?), so I think the idea will be a non-starter.

thanks JJJ - will look at the KellyMom stuff

onimolap - I'm in UK, thought I had found a website where I could order it online. Do you know why it can no longer be imported?

It's not legal to sell it as infant formula.

Any idea how long it will take to get a referral? Given the strength of reaction I'd be asking for an urgent referral.

You could try rice milk, but you're best choosing the organic variety as rice milk can have a level of toxins in it which is not good for < 4 YOs.

You could do a skin test with goat's milk (not formula) from the supermarket to see if there's a reaction, which would be cheaper than buying the formula - just a thought.

Final suggestion - your local NCT branch will likely have a hospital grade pump you can hire. Not cheap but you can usually get more milk, more quickly from them which will make pumping less of a chore. I've just done just that for my 6mo dairy intolerant (not allergic thank goodness) DS who I'll start BLW with soon. I've been advised by his consultant dietician to avoid cow, sheep and goat milk for at least 4 years and to BF for as long as poss (2-3yrs min if possible). But you need advice from your own HCP of course. The allergy boards will help more but look up info about testing as I understand that false negatives are common - but this may just be for intolerance, not allergy.

I may have over-extrapolated from this Govt website, which on closer reading says They have not been approved for use in Europe (infant formula or follow on). You may well be OK for an individual mail order, but there are no commercial scale imports as retailers won't carry it anymore.

Thanks both - organic carrot cake, do you know why it is illegal? There seem to be plenty of people who have used it so I'm trying to understand what has changed. Good idea re supermarket goats milk - I already have oatley, rice milk and soya milk in the house to do skin tests with when I'm feeling brave enough - at least if he can handle one of them I can make him porridge and things.

Good idea also re the full strength pump. Poor you with dairy intolerance - can't believe you have been advised to bf for 2-3yrs . How many times per day after 12 months? I have loved bf but am very ready to feel I have some freedom, I also want to concieve again as quickly as possible and am worried that continued bf will make this really difficult. Did you look into any of the other hypoallergenic formulas? Neocate etc. You're so lucky to have seen a consultant though - weaning an allergic baby without support is a bit scary, I keep thinking every itch will turn into full on anaphylactic shock, although believe this is very rare in babies so telling myself I am overreacting . No idea how long the appointment will take - have a letter with a phone number that no one answers...

we used it with both my boys.

It was the same basic formula, but it was shipped to us with an alternative label strongly gummed to the original tin proclaiming it a wholesome nutrious fortified dried goats milk drink, delicious for all the family

we weren't allergic to cows milk, but def didn't agree win the kids ( skin reaction, stomach reaction, screaming apparently in pain). Was much better with the nanny goat formula .

AFAIK the 'illegal' business is basically because health workers saw no 'point' to it. a bit overreaction, IMO.

In any case, there is not any question that there is anything 'wrong' with it. At most, it is not sufficiently fortified to be a sole source of food. At 6.5 months you will be starting solids. In fact, you could actually just go for the goaty follow on milk, which is so legal it is sold in my wait rose.

Thanks SF - my concern is that there is something 'wrong' with it but have been unable to find any evidence. There do seem to be many people like you who have used it with no ill effects. The govt websties just seem to tell you it isn't approved without telling you why (not good enough if you want to know why!!). I suppose I could just use the follow on milk. After all this, I bet he is allergic to that too but it is worth a try!

In case anyone picks this up on a search, my DS apparently can't tolerate goats milk either. Put a blob of the made up formula on his head and it was red and lumpy within a minute, so seems they may be right that cows milk allergy=goats milk allergy.

Organic carrot cake - if you're still reading this would love to hear more about the advice you have been given re bf.

I have a jen-u-whine tin of SMA milk from the 1940s which states that it "matches the nourishment of mother's milk" . Meaning, you can't believe what it says on the tin. Of course, SMA in the 1940s was even further away from breastmilk than it is now.

Goat's milk formula doesn't contain all the things required in an infant formula, therefore it's not allowed as infant formula, therefore what it says on the tin doesn't come under infant formula regulations in the sense that it's already banned - if that makes sense.

Follow on milks have very little regulation which is why Nanny formula is sold in Waitrose. Of course, goat's milk is often much better tolerated than cow's milk so Nanny formula would logically be better tolerated by some than cow's milk based formula.

papillon sure, what do you need to know :)

Hi Organiccarrotcake. I'm mostly surprised that you have been advised to bf for 2-3 years! How many times per day after 12 months? Does their main milk drink have to be bm or formula for that long? And did you look into any of the hypoallergenic formulas like neocate?

Hi Papillon. I was surprised too, but pleased that she was so keen on BFing.

She didn't give me any rules at all, but I plan to leave it up to my DS as far as possible (given that I will be working for several full days a week). I think that as long as he gets 2-3 feeds a day he'll get more than enough and any extra is a bonus. I was offered free hypoallergenic formula up to age 4 but I declined as I'd prefer to BF anyway and had planned to term bf. But the two options she gave me were term bfing or hypo formula.

HTH :)

Oh and I got a load of leaflets on how to ensure he gets good calcium intake if I drop the bfing, don't give neocate and he needs the nutrients which are in milk.

My dd2 has/had a cows milk protein, and probably lactose intolerance.

I went dairy free when bfing, which made her better, when it was time to move onto formula [8 months] we needed Cow&Gate Pepti Jnr, which is extensively hydrolysed. It suited her to perfection, whilst the less hydrolysed C&G pepti and neocate did not.

It is prescription only, and we go through tins and tns of it as she is 2.

Don't know if that helps anyone, but good luck with it all. Just wish circumstances meant I could have breastfed longer, but I have to say the prescription milk has been a marvellous thing. It is now made my Aptimil btw, although retains the C&G name. Thus proving they are all a lot of snakes swallowing their own tails.

You got some really cool advice organiccarrotcake. We have a dietician who is really supportive and helpful, but yours kicks ass!

Ds2 had a CMP allergy and reacted the same way as your son. I didn't bother with Nanny formula but did try him with goats milk form Sainsbury's and he reacted to that too. I knew he was ok with lactose as he was fine with teething granules which are in a lactose base. I was still bf him but needed a milk for use in food as I wasn't able to express. Discounted rice milk due to arsenic and low calorie content, oat milk as it had salt in it, soya milk as 60% of babies with a CMP allergy react to soya as well and I also didn't like the oestrogenic effects of soya, didn't want to use nut milks for fear of nut allergy. So in the end we had hypoallergenic formula prescribed by the GP via the dietician and used that. There is a knack to cooking with it but it works and I used lots of olive oil in all food to up the calorie content.

Should have said it was Pepti Junior we used. Dietician 1 seemed to have no concept of bf past 6m but number 2 was fab and totally supported me. I just wish I's gone dairy free when ds2 was tiny and could have seen if it had made a difference.

Oooh yes to oils. I used lashings of olive, rapeseed and flax.

Now she lives on chips, but that's another thread

@ kicks ass. I know, I was stunned .

Oh yes, good point about rice milk bert. She mentioned that, but said that organic rice milk (readily available) is ok. I use Provamel and really like it (for myself).

It also makes yummy porridge!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! So good to get some other people's experiences with all this as looks like we may not get to see a dietician before May . It is quite a lonely place dealing with food allergy/intolerance as there aren't as many people in RL to talk to about it. All the milk substitutes seem to be very controversial for one reason or another.

I am going back to the GPs today so sounds like I need to try Pepti Junior and Neocate. I am also wondering whether to go dairy free - he seems to be fine with my bm despite me eating dairy and his eczema seems to be under control with lashings of Epaderm.

organiccarrotcake - great that you got all those leaflets, sounds like your dietician thinks it would ultimately be ok to drop bf and not give formula provided you can get enough nutrients into them through diet.

Bert - how long did you bf for?

It is staggering how many people are surprised when you say you will need to bf past 6/8 months. I do love bf and am more than happy to carry on for a bit but he is increasingly on and off the boob which I find quite painful and I had hoped to go to the odd hen do/wedding weekend and to concieve no. 2!

21 months but remember that they feed less often when they get older and you can manage to go out!

Also, forgot to ask organiccarrotcake - which pump have you hired and how are you finding it? I think I could manage the extended bf if I can make expressing more efficient. I have a single Philips Avent and seem to get about 2-3oz in 25 minutes on a good day. My local NCT branch hires modela symphony I think which they say will yield more like 5-6oz in 10 minutes.

Thanks Bert: at the moment, the thought of bf for 21 months makes me feel a bit trapped . Did you have any nights away during that time? I know you said you couldn't express so did you just not give the odd bedtime/morning feed? What was the frequency like at different ages?

No no nights away but we were only feeding at bedtime and first thing in the morning so I would do the bedtime feed and then run straight out the door. Different babies have different feeding frequencies but after a year I was down to morning feed, mid morning feed and bedtime feed with both boys.