HELP PLEASE! 3wk old daughter, want to stop breast feeding

[Jen2727]

Any advice would be appreciated. I have a 3wk old daughter and we have been experiencing problems breast feeding. She has always been a fussy feeder and a sleepy one too - she takes a while to latch on, keeps coming on and off and fussing further and i have to wake her during feeds and i struggle to keep her attention. She is putting on weight well, so there are no problems with the amount that she is feeding. It takes an hour/hour and a half to get her to feed for an average of 20 minutes. She feeds every 3-4.5 hours and i feel like i have no time to go anywhere between feeds. I am getting quite depressed about it and am considering quitting and switching to formula to take the pressure off myself.
Has anyone had similar experiences or does anyone have any advice as to how to introduce formula or expressed milk? I was led to believe that you can't really express until 6wks as it may deplete your milk supply. Is this correct?
Any advice on combining formula feeding and breast feeding? I know nothing about formula feeding and wouldn't have the first idea as to which formula/bottle teats to buy ...
I would be really grateful for any advice

RE crying periodically - I remember doing this with DD1 every other day or so for the first 6 weeksish. In the shower, when feeding, when someone asked me how things were going! Hormones are still settling down and you are tired! You are bound to feel teary - mention it to the GP if necessary but try to take it easy and not be too hard on yourself.

DS was like this at the beginning too - hour long feeds every two hours!

I did find that although he wanted to feed constantly if we were at home, if I went out with him in the sling he'd happily go a couple of hours between feeds. If your DH wants to get involved, maybe this is something he could do? Take the baby out for a long walk so you can have a relaxing bath or go and sit in a cafe and read the paper.

Hi Jen,

I found that by 6 weeks each time the baby had got more awake and more efficient and feeds were much shorter. Also by then you can express milk if you really need a break.

If you are keen to keep on BFing best to wait another few weeks - combination feeding from this early stage would in all likelihood reduce your supply and the baby might prefer a bottle making BFing even more difficult.

My DD was similar - I did the following which greatly improved things:

• fed her just wearing nappy (yes it was november!). if she fell asleep i put her on a blanket on the floor or changed nappy - she generally woke up v quickly and i continued the feed, if this happened towards end of feed then let her sleep
• finished each fed after 1 hour regardless
• at weekends let DH look after her whole time between feeds, allowing me to have some me time - eg to get haircut, go shopping to gym to see friends etc.

Sorry you're having a hard time of it Jen. I FF my first 4 DC's over the past 18 years. DD2 was like yours but FF, dozy little madam little and often. I would get through about a dozen bottles a day in the first couple of months, I had 6 on a wash and sterilize cycle, but it was sooo time consuming!
With DD3 I was determined to make BF work this time, so just took root on my sofa with a footstool, nursing cushion and loads of recorded episodes of CSI and House, and when we did go out food was always on tap, just had to find somewhere comfy to sit.
I now miss those long all day snuggles as she now wants to look around and try to sit up all the time.
DD3 is now 7m and still happily BF but only 5 times a day. Hope you feel a bit reassured.

Apologies if this has already been said but

• your dd is putting on weight OK? WEt and dirty nappies? Then she is doing a good job of regulating her intake and is getting enough - you are doing fantastically!
• She feeds every 3 hours? Thhat is utterly normal at this stage, and the feeds themselves may take over an hour :( It is hard but it DOES get better.
• Expressing and mix feeding may or may not affect your supply, it's impossible to tell. Only you know whether it's worth the risk. However, in my (non expert!) opinion there isn't a need to supplement with EBM or formula.

Do you have family nearby? Is your DP at home with you atm?

Jen2727, I found the frequency of feeding/unpredictable feeding habits/tiredness and sheer demand of it all incredibly hard for the 1st few weeks. What you describe sounds very familiar to me, and I think there's nothing 'wrong' with your DD's feeding habits, FWIW. They are just very demanding.

In fact, I think it was around 3 weeks that I promised myself that if I could just make it to 6 weeks, I would 'reward' myself by introducing a bottle of formula at night.

I hated being trapped indoors on the sofa - not able to plan the smallest of outings, never being able to predict when I could leave the house, or how long I would be anywhere because DS would start clamouring to feed. I'm very active and outdoorsy, so I never saw being stuck in front of the telly as an asset...

Anyway, it did get better, as everyone said it would... even though we're now in the crappy 4 months sleep regression, it's not as bad as those early days.

I did promise myself that if I was so exhausted or down that it felt like I was crossing a line, and heading out of normal teariness and exhaustion into proper depression and anxiety, then I'd revisit my feeding plans, to see if I could make life easier for myself. I did ask myself a lot if it was all 'too much', and there were a lot of tears! but I'm still EBF-ing at 5 months, so obviously I never actually hit the wall, as it were.

I wasn't going to BF at the expense of my mental health - but I was going to give it a bloody good go and not throw the towel in unless I had to, was my attitude.

I guess I'd encourage you to keep going on the grounds that it does get better/easier (I'm assuming you are keen to BF, as you've started and got to 3 weeks, which is good going) - but also to just keep tabs on yourself as well as you can.

And if you can go to a BF peer support group, do. It's so good to be able to share experiences and complain, frankly! about BF-ing - without getting a response along the lines of 'Oh, well just feed formula then, you're making a rod for your own back, everyone else bottlefeeds' etc etc. So tedious and unhelpful.

In my babies first few weeks I did not leave the house either. In the end, despite feeling shattered, I walked to the local shop and the fresh air did wonders. I kept crying, asking my Mum not to leave as every time I fed LI she would wedge pillows under my arms and back and I wondered how I would ever do it on my own. Get some fresh air...just a little each day. It really helps x

Hi, not had time to read all replies so sorry if I repeat anything. Just want to say you sound EXACTLY like me 2 weeks ago. What saved my sanity was expressing just one feed's worth for my DP to give to her and I could get a good stretch of sleep - 3 hours which may NLT sound like much but made all the difference. Tiredness will lead to the weepiness and the getting annoyed with your DD. Don't feel bad about it, I PROMISE it will get better and you will fall more in love with her every day. Also have you considered a dummy as she may just need to suck. My DD has a very strong need to suckle and seemed to want to feed all the time but once we gave her a dummy to suck it really helped. I know there's a stigma about dummies - trust me I would have never tried if I wasn't desperate - but my DD still let's me know when she's hungry as opposed to needing to suck so there's no confusion.
Hope this has helped, sorry it's a bit rambly, have baby in one hand and iPhone in the other!

Good luck :)

I second dreamergirl about dummies, I didn't like it but it definitely helped with the constant feeding.
As soon as DD learned to suck her thumb the dummy wasn't needed.
Bf got me down at first (oversupply and constantly damp) but the alternative always sounded so much more stressful to me, after about 5 weeks it was so much easier and now I can't imagine it any other way.

I just want to thank everyone for all the advice, which i am certainly taking on board. I have given myself the deadline of carrying on as i am until xmas. Hopefully, things will settle down ... i may try expressing one feed a day if i'm struggling dor my husband to give to her. I am trying putting her down in her moses basket when she falls asleep during the feed. So far, this has made her wake and cry and she then wants to suckle. Hopefully she may learn that she'll only get to eat if she stays awake and concentrates! I have also decided to proper feed on demand and to not wake her after 3 hours (which is what i've been doing if she hasn;t woken on her own). My other aim is to get out every day. I am sure that if i am out (so long as i'm not too far from home) and she is desperately hungry and screaming the place down, i can either find somewhere to just feed her a little to tide her over until we get home or i should be able to get home and feed her properly. My husband is very supportive and i am feeling much more positive. I know my positive attitude may only be short lived, but i need to save this thread and keep reading it when i have a low time. My week ahead is more promising as when my husband is at work, my mum is around more as she has less work on, so i know i can see her if i need to. Thank you again guys, but please keep any advice and ideas coming! xx:)

Dreemagurl - how old is your DD? I'm not really sure about expressing before 6 weeks. If i should express before 6 weeks, when is the best time and how much does she need for one feed?

Jen I was in a similar situation to yourself, DS was a nightmare and there were times where DH was holding him in the middle of the night and DS was crying and I was crying. Oh my gosh it was awful, I even went so far as to go out one morning when DS was three weeks old and bought some formula cartons (which are still in the cupboard). At this stage I just kept saying to myself 'one more day' or 'one more feed'. I did express at this stage occasionally just so DH could give DS a bottle in the morning so I could get a bit more sleep.

I also agree with Dreemagurl about dummies, my DS just likes to suckle so we eventually gave in and gave him a dummy. I still have a major guilt trip about it, but it's saved my sanity and I figure a sane Mum is better than where I was before.

My advice would be to set up shop on the sofa with chocolate, some DVD's and a phone with internet access and just go with it.

Also regarding getting out, get the change bag ready the night before and before you're due to go out stick DD on the breast for a bit to give her a top up. This is what I do with DS and it seems to work for us.

I'm glad your DH is supportive, that is very important at this stage and will help lots. Is there a local BF support group you can go to, I go along to mine and it's really nice as they have a BF peer supporter who we can talk to about various bits and bobs.

I will echo everyone else and say that it does and will get easier. You and DD will learn how to work together and one day you'll wake up and you'll think 'wow, this is really working'. My DS is six weeks old this weekend and I'm so glad I kept going.

Re expressing here is a link to a milk calculator from Kellymom.

Definitely a good idea to get out and about. You will find that after a few attempts feeding her in public will become second nature and then suddenly you have so much more freedom :)

I did similar to barkfox - decided that I would persevere until breastfeeding was established (in my head about 6-8 weeks) and then give him one bottle of formula a day. When I got there though I found I had no need to. I like the fact that he's exclusively breast fed (and that has extra health benefits) and tbh giving him formula would be more hassle.

A bit of fresh air every day is definitely good. I stayed very close to home for a while as I could only feed him lying down (not very practical for going out!) but even a walk around the block is better than nothing. Maybe you can find a nearby cafe with comfy seats and incorporate that into a walk?

Jen my DD is 5 weeks and I started expressing after about a week - but I had serious oversupply and engorgement problems - serious pain! I had to express every day just to get my boobs to stop hurting so thought I might as well keep the milk. My MW said it was ok to try her on a bottle after a week - although I know there are many conflicting opinions about this - so we tried giving her just a bottle every 2 days. It didn't seem to cause nipple confusion - she still breastfed fine. All babies are different however so I don't want to advise you to do something you're not comfortable doing. I will reiterate though how much better I feel having a few extra hours sleep while DP is able to give her a bottle. Also if you're going somewhere and not sure about bf options you can take a bottle with you. If I miss a feed due to DP giving a bottle I make sure I express to keep my supply up AND stop engorgement. Oh, and if you are going to be expressing regularly I would invest in an electric pump - so worth it! I use the Medela swing pump which was about £90.
Hope this has helped. Good luck and remember you're doing great - it will all be worth it. Follow your instincts and do what feels right :)

If you want to express it would be worth phoning one of the helplines or speaking to a bf counsellor in real life so they can help you come up with a plan of when/how to do it etc and avoid some of the possible pitfalls. Could be a really good thing though if it gets you a bit more sleep :)

I think it's possible your little girl is just using your boob to get herself off to sleep. You mustn't worry about this. Let her sleep and then if you can, gently move her to her moses basket. Swaddling can help her at this stage as she'll feel held even if she's not. And then you can have a cuppa.

I know just how you feel - as though you're in the middle of some dreadful sleep deprivation experiment! And as though you'll never get your life back again. But you will. This is a marathon, but it's a marathon which will eventually turn into a jog, then a walk, then a stroll.

You talk about expressing but then say that's out as you'll need to wait until six weeks. I see nothing wrong with having a go with the pump from about week 4 (because it'll take you a couple of weeks to get into the swing of expressing and it may take a couple of weeks of perseverence to get your DD to take a bottle). Don't express too much when you're practising or you may get upset when your DD won't take it and end up throwing the bottle of expressed milk across the living room in frustration like- I did--.

There are a couple of issues here. If you want to give her formula for you, that's one thing. But if you want to because your DH fancies a crack with a bottle tell him to wait until you're expressing. Because that's not really a legitimate reason in my opinion.

You will feel better if you stop worrying about the state of the house, stop worrying about your old life (things will improve on that front) and just accept that the next month is going to be very very tough no matter how you feed - but that from six weeks on, it gets a little easier every week. Don't listen to anyone whose children are more than 15 years old about what having a newborn is like, nostalgia is a dangerous thing if it's being doled out in advice form.

FWIW, I started expressing around 2 weeks (I think it was at 10 days, in fact) -

There is SO much conflicting advice about expressing and bottle feeding EBM. I'll tell you what my MW said, cos it worked for us, and I genuinely believe DS being able to do a feed of expressed milk was a lifesaver for me. To go from never getting more than 2 hours sleep to getting 3, or even 4! hours in one go...Was a huge help.

DS was feeding well, in that he was gaining weight and had good latch, and I had no pain etc - althouth he was a very frequent feeder, and an epic cluster feeder, so it was v tiring for me.

MW said introducing a bottle feed once a day, or every 2 days, was very unlikely to cause nipple confusion if DS wasn't having latch problems to start with. She said don't go mad, and pump for hours in one go, but to just express a little at the start and end of each feed. That way you can build up a little daily 'stash' without sending your supply rocketing, and getting engorgement problems.

Get DS to offer the bottle when you aren't in the room. Wait until baby's hungry, but not screaming. If your DD just has a bit of a play and gets a little milk down to start with, that's fine.

(interestingly, my MW said that there's a small window of time to introduce a bottle, which is BEFORE 6 weeks. After that, babies find it much harder to learn, and many refuse to take a bottle at all. There are lots of posts on this forum from women desperate for their older baby to take a bottle, as they are returning to work, and want to express - they were told to 'wait', and now their DCs won't take it at all)

If a baby doesn't take the bottle at first, don't get stressed and disappointed, they might be fine next day, so stay calm and try again.

What I did was express in small amounts during the day - mainly after feeds, from the same boob DS had been feeding from, as I never seemed to have time to do it before, DS always seemed to be asking for a feed...

Then after feeding late at night (basically when DS had temporarily zonked out at the end of a marathon cluster feed), I would stagger off to bed, leaving DP up with DS.

DP would offer bottle of expressed milk on demand, same as I did with the boob - so basically I got woken when the milk was gone and DS was peckish again.

I found having 'skipped' a feed, my boobs were quite full, so I had to express a bit when I woke, or after I'd fed DS from one side, to get comfy again. I couldn't really go more than 4/5 hours max without getting engorged, but 4/5 hours was the absolute maximum break I got anyway.

I know expressing doesn't work for everyone, but my DS never had confusion, I found expressing easy and fast (with a hand pump), and DS still takes a bottle a night now, or if he's out and about with DP. It bought me a break and sleep when I desperately needed it.

PS kellymom has lots of very useful info on expressing.

Re: going out - I remember getting very, very upset because I seemed to be incapable of actually leaving the house, let along going anywhere. Just by the time I'd had a shower and quickly put 'outside' clothes on, DS wanted feeding again. Then I'd get him dressed - and he'd want feeding again. Then I couldn't put him down to pack a nappy/change bag because he'd start crying, and I'd get stressed - so I'd faff about trying to do it one handed, then DS would want feeding again - then I'd need to go to the toilet and have some toast because I was hungry, then DS wanted feeding again...

Then I'd try and get him in the buggy and start crying because it had taken me TWO HOURS to get to the front door. Then DS would start crying and want feeding again, so I'd have to unload him and hit the sofa again. And then give up on the idea of going out.

When I finally managed to get out, I underestimated how much DS would want to feed (this was all pre 6 weeks), and just found I was walking from costa to starbucks and back again.

It does get so much better. (I'm still crap at leaving the house efficiently, to be fair, but that's just my sluttish lack of organisation.) Aim low and you won't be disappointed, I say - if your only ambition for a trip out is fresh air, a change of scenery, and to return home with you and DD still in one piece, then that's fine. Anything more ambitious can wait.

If you can go out with someone else, who can be a spare pair of hands to take bags/buggy, buy you a cup of tea etc, hold DD when you need to find a loo, and let you just get on with the business of feeding DD, that's a huge help. My mum was bloody marvellous at this.

Thank you barkfox ... some vaulable advice. I have borrowed a hand pump from someone but need to get a steriliser and some bottles. Any suggestions as to what teats to buy ... and would a handpump be OK ... i can buy an electric one if it would be much easier ... if som any recommendations from anyone?

I think people very a lot in which method of expressing the prefer. Personally I find hand expressing best and hand pumps are ok. I'd only invest in an electric one if you know you're going to do a lot of expressing. Tommy Tippee do a range of 'closer to nature' teats that are supposed to be more similar to a breast but we used avent ones and found them fine (DH just rushed out while I was still in hospital and bought what tesco had but we've been happy with them)

people vary a lot in which method they prefer (oops!)

Barkfox It takes me two hours to get me and DS out of the house as well and despite my best intentions I'm always late, such is life with a newborn eh.

Jen I've been using the breastflow bottles with our DS. We did use the Tommee Tippee ones but DS kept looking at me like I was a moron when I offered them to him. Really I think it all depends on the baby but I expect at this stage it doesn't make that much of a difference.

Also Barkfoxes comment about aiming low is spot on. You have enough going on in your life with suddenly being given a human child and learning how to take care of it. I mean they don't exactly give you an instruction manual at the hospital to go home with do they. So go easy on yourself and just do whatever you need to do to keep yourself sane. Be that chocolate, dummies, bottles, formula or whatever.

Hi, I used an avent hand pump, found v easy, and leant to a friend who had an electric one she couldn't get on with, and she also liked the avent one.