Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

woefully glib and inaccurate b/feeding article in Evening Standard

32 replies

otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 15:15

Shouldn't be surprised as it's part of the Daily Mail Gp.

Peddles myths about "big bottles of formula helping babies sleep through" and how she's been "teetotal" for a year (well, ten months)

Written from point of view of professional breastfeeder ("organically oriented middle class mum" FFS) who is hoping to get to a year.

OP posts:
mcfee · 01/12/2010 15:19

Link please?

OP posts:
barkfox · 01/12/2010 15:50

Is it a myth about the bottle of formula making babies sleep for longer??

I'm EBF-ing my 1st DS, coming up to 5 months now - and every single person I know who is FF-ing, or doing mix feeding and adding that bedtime bottle, has a baby who sleeps longer without waking.

Mostly they've added in a bedtime bottle because they were exhausted by the frequency of feeding during the night (as was/am I). That meant they could let their DP do one or more feeds, and get some rest. But they all say that bottle sends their baby into a deep sleep.

I know folk on this forum say that there's evidence BF-ing mums get more sleep than FF-ing mums - but isn't that true only where the mums have no one they share feeding with?

Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-BF, convinced of the health benefits, and my DS hasn't had a drop of formula. I'm also of the opinion that that deep sleep we want babies to have isn't good for them, especially when they are very small. It's just one of those things - frequent waking might be good for them but isn't so enjoyable for us! Anyway, I just want to know if it really is a myth or not about FF babies sleeping for longer periods... Anyone? TIA

prettybird · 01/12/2010 15:56

Some FF babies sleep through from early on - in the same way that some BF babies sleep through too. It's not to do with waht they're fed.

My breastfed ds slept through from 2 weeks - to the extent that for a number of weeks I had to wake him to feed him Shock

I know of friends who started FF feeding their dses from 6 weeks - and they didn't get a complete night's sleep until ther youngest reached toddlerhood - so about 4 years in total.

barkfox · 01/12/2010 15:59

PS I didn't think the article was that bad. She makes some good points about support - and that a lot of women struggle with BF-ing.

I think if she's saying that as an EBF-ing mother, she finds EBF-ing hard and knackering, and can therefore understand why other mums don't persist, or start mix feeding... well, me too.

I did laugh at the end, when she talked about holding off weaning - apart from some baby rice. Which is weaning, isn't it?? With DS coming up to 5 months, I'm beginning to think the next big myth about BF-ing is weaning - I thought everyone aimed for 6 months, as per (current) guidlines. I've begun to realise this isn't the case, and there are a lot of folk jumping the gun!

barkfox · 01/12/2010 16:04

thanks, prettybird - so your anecdotal evidence is different from mine, then - but they're both anecdotal, aren't they. We just know different people.

If anyone has any actual research and evidence about babies experiencing a longer session of unbroken sleep after a bottle of bedtime formula...?

I do have an 'agenda' and I'll happily declare it - I feel I was given such a glowing 'sell' on BF-ing before my DS was born, which left out the hard parts, and consequently left me unprepared, that you know what? I'd rather know the truth! I'm convinced of the benefits, I'm EBF-ing - I just don't want the wool pulled over me eyes, is all.

AngelDog · 01/12/2010 16:05

barkfox, I read a statistic recently that said that only 2% of babies are exclusively bf until 6 months as per the guidelines. Quite a lot of that will be ff / mixed feeders, of course, but that still suggests that lots of people who bf start weaning before 6 months. That supports my experience - of all my antenatal / postnatal groups and other friends with babies my age (maybe 25+ babies), no-one except me waited till 6 months.

otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 16:14

I waited until 7 months. That must take me into a tiny minority

OP posts:
otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 16:15

I also objected to the tone.

"I'm doing perfectly (even though it is knackering and I can't drink) but I do understand that lesser women resort to bottles...."

OP posts:
belgo · 01/12/2010 16:19

Just read it. It just makes bfing seem like a nightmare, an act of matyrdom, even when it is going 'well'.

That's just not the case for many bfing mothers, certainly not for me. After the first difficult few weeks I have really enjoyed bfing, and have spent nearly five years of my life bfing my three children.

I don't have itchy skin or red eyes (except when I've been mumsnetting too much); I'm not teetotal.

I think part of the problem is that women find it so hard in the beginning and end up stopping beofer it gets easier, so their experience is of hard painful drudgery and sadly they don;t realise bfing does not have to be like that.

And of course women who do enjoy it and carry on bfing beyond the age of one, are accused of bfing just for themselves.

belgo · 01/12/2010 16:21

Actually I do have itchy skin, I always have done, don't know what bfing has to do with that.

otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 16:25

I'm not saying it's easy either. All our experiences are different. In my case I had a baby born at 35 weeks and I went mad with the weight anxiety and until she was 20 months I never got more than 3 hours sleep at a time.

It's not black and white. I loved it and sometimes didn't and the nights. Well, lets just say they are now a blur.

I think the glibness of the tone and the "'psst, everyone I know bends the 'rules'" is unhelpful and divisive.

OP posts:
prettybird · 01/12/2010 16:25

It's also a fallacy that you need to stay teetotal when breastfeeding - that could also put people off the idea of "extended" Hmm breast feeding.

I fed ds fro 13 months. I had all sort of problems: ds took 7 weeks to regain birthweight, dropped off the growth charts (until we realised that he was demonstrating catch down growth), was re-admitted to hopstial 2 weeks postpartum with an infection which needed IV antibiotics, had mastitis and went back to work FT when ds was 4 months old (all the Mat leave you got back then which would guarantee your old job back).

I did however have fabulous support (from BF counsellor midwives at the Mat. hospital and my dh) - and had been to an ante-natal BF workshop (run by said fanstastic BF counsellors) where I was inspired by another mum who had had dreadul problems but had succeeded in continuing to breast feed. I returned the favour by myslef going along to one of those workshops to talk about my own experiences (and later learnt that I in turn had insipired someone else to work through their problems :))

So I agree: talking about the porblems - but not in a defeatist way - can be really inspiring :)

otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 16:27

I should add that I'm still feeding her past two. Just in the early hours of the morning when she gets into our bed.

I can't find it such an act of matyrdom as it would be fairly easy to stop.

OP posts:
barkfox · 01/12/2010 17:25

angeldog, yes, everyone I know weaned before 6 months (although to be fair, the guidelines have changed a few times fairly recently, so it's not like there's been an established 'norm' for weaning post-6 months around for a while).

belgo, I really agree that the experience of BF-ing after the 1st few weeks is very different, and a lot easier - and that most women give up during that difficult time when if only they'd hung on, their experience would have got a lot better. That's part of my gripe with the pro-BF info I had, in that I'd say now what it mostly described was what BF-ing was like post 6 weeks. Esp all the stuff about how convenient it was. I remember being glued to the sofa with a cluster feeding 3 week old for hours and hours, exhausted and desperate for a break, wondering what kind of a loony would describe it as convenient??

Others in my BF group have said the same, and that as a result they were unprepared for how tough it was to start.

Is the tone of this article really that bad? She doesn't dismiss others as 'lesser women' for bottle feeding (the opposite, in fact, she says she wouldn't criticise them). We might all have different experiences, sure - so if this writer found it hard, and views it as a positive thing but one which comes at a cost, isn't that legitimate, if that's her experience? And how is it defeatist? Doesn't she say how determined she is to keep going, and that she feels it's been worth it?

I'm a bit concerned that there's an 'acceptable' way to talk about BF-ing publicly, and where someone's personal experience isn't all blissful and wonderful and unqualified joy, they can't be honest about it. I don't see how that helps.

otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 17:28

I think there's a responsible way to report around the subject, yes.

I am a reporter and would think very carefully about establishing the tone in a piece like this.

I'm not saying what someone can or can't say. Asked after a string of bad nights and I may have said all sorts.

But I was sighing at the glib tone. This does nothing to help anyone apart from making the author feel good about herself.

OP posts:
otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 17:30

Plus, she is giving the wrong impression about drinking (to be fair she doesn't elaborate) and formula. Doesn't mention at all the risks of mixed feeding. In a healthcare story, that's woeful.

OP posts:
barkfox · 01/12/2010 17:40

Well - to be fair, she does say "Breast-fed babies are brainer, have stronger immune systems, bond better ? the list goes on. Bottle-feeding carries risks too, from tooth decay to obesity. So for me there was never a question that I would breast-feed my daughter, Robin."

No, she doesn't mention the risks of mixed feeding (do you mean things like decreased supply, babies preferring bottle to breast, etc?)

So yes, I can see someone might read this article, and think it was just a bit daft to try and EBF when adding in a bit of formula might make it all so much easier.

But I still think it's not a horrendous anti BF piece of writing. Horses for courses I guess.

otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 17:55

No, it's not on a par with the awful one in Mother & Baby, which I have my suspicions about.

But it is insidious. If you just thought it was easy to mix feed (and not saying it isn't in all cases) you might resort to it after a bad patch and then run into problems.

And if you thought it might mean no drinking for the course of breastfeeding, you may want to give up as soon as possible.

And if you tore your hair out because your baby didn't sleep through and this article added to the hype you hear that breastfeeding is the problem you may start formula.

I have an issue with that.

Healthcare reporting is generally woeful and I shouldn't expect great things from the DM stable. Still, pisses me off because they know better.

OP posts:
otchayaniye · 01/12/2010 17:57

Besides, hasn't the IQ thing been discredited? Only asking, don't have time for a PubMed search.

And some people would take issue with the 'bond better'.

It's all such bollocks is my problem.

OP posts:
MumNWLondon · 01/12/2010 18:02

I don't think its such a bad article.

In respect of the sleeping I think there is some truth in it, DS2 slept 10-7 from 8 weeks - 16 weeks just on breastmilk.

But he started waking again at 16 weeks and although everyone on here said growth spurt, he had 2-3 night wakings every night.

At 21 weeks I gave a bedtime bottle of formula, and he went 5-6 hours on this, compared to 2 hours (by that point) on a breastfed. I couldn't give EBM as he was feeding 2 hourly round the clock and a couldn't extract any with a pump. At 6 months I gave the hipp follow on goodnight formula and he slept all night. I think she is right about it taking longer to digest - certainly the case for us.

re: alchohol, well if you are feeding round the clock you can't get drunk, your baby is dependent on you in a way that a bottle fed baby isn't but of course a couple of glasses of wine etc ok.

EdgarAllenSnow · 01/12/2010 19:15

well - it's not the best of articles. It's not the worst of articles. It is an article of foolishness - and one with some small amount of wisdom.

myths: sleeping. mine all slept through early, and only from the Boob Of Sleep.

teetotal: why? it isn't the BF that stops you drinking: It's the baby!

wisdom : BF Groups are great for helping you get through it.

she could also have namechecked MN!

EdgarAllenSnow · 01/12/2010 19:17

no, IQ gain has been proved better than ever in a study of premmies that were being tube-fed - group A (premmy formula) scored lower in IQ tests that group B (premmy formula & BM) - at age 5.

it's somewhere on the Beebs website.

belgo · 01/12/2010 19:21

otchayaniye - you are right - as usual it gives formula milk as the answer to all possible babies:

baby doesn't sleep: give a bottle
want to drink alcohol: give baby a bottle etc.

What it doesn't mention is that sometimes ff causes more problems for the baby: constipation, more likely to get ill, baby could be cow's milk allergic etc.

theresapotatoundermysink · 01/12/2010 19:28

Oh FFS. What a stupid bloody article. Well done for describing breast feeding as 'a sleepless, teetotal slog'. So encouraging to new mothers!

Twat.

Swipe left for the next trending thread