*HOW* do I get a deeper latch?

[gummymum]

Hi.
I have a 19 day old, 1st baby. BF is obviously a real struggle for a lot of people and I know that things often improve with time.
I am having difficulty getting dd to latch deeply. She is thriving so no worries there, but I am v sore and have flat/lipstick nipples after feeding. I can manage, occasionally using shields, but would love to crack this.
I have looked at the threds on 'flipple' and seen all J Newmans stuff. We mostly use rugby hold, but also cross-cradle. Every expert has said 'it looks fine' but I know it's not right. Do we just keep trying? Do I have to wait for her mouth to grow? I'm not sure what to do and all the experts say its fine!!!
Help!

Have you tried gripping your aureole gently between first and second finger before presenting it to baby? (think of holding your fingers in ''scissors'' position, then take area around the nipple between the fingers.
It sounds odd but it really helped my boy get a firm latch.
I used nipple shields until someone showed me this.
Good luck, and well done for persevering :)

Have you tried biological nurturing? see here for info on it. Basically you're reclining and the baby lies face down on your chest and roots around until they latch on. Gravity is then helping you get a deeper latch.

Try gripping your whole boob with your fingers and squeezing it as flat as it can go (this prevents the nipple from flopping around); keep your fingers well clear of the areola because you want this going into the baby's mouth. Then guide the nipple into the baby's mouth as far as it will go so your nipples don't get sanded by her tongue. Photos and text here from Dr. Sears.

(Make your hand into a C shape, thumb on top, fingers curved underneath to squeeze...)

Mathanxiety's technique worked for us - thumb on the top of the breast (right hand for right breast) and other fingers cupping the breast. Gently press with your thumb to angle your nipple up towards the roof of baby's mouth, and just as she's about to latch on, 'flick' the nipple inwards and upwards.

Hope that makes sense

Also I know it's obvious but try to be disciplined about getting the best latch you can at each feed; I remember being a bit lazy about it when it was 4 am and I was knackered, but I usually regretted it afterwards.

Hi
Hope you're doing ok? I don't have any advice on latching on, only ensure it's a comfortable latch and don't worry about doing it several times to ensure comfort. That's what I did.

Have you tried a good cream to help with soreness? I can't use lanolin in products, but Mothercare do a nipple balm which is waxy and you can feed through it no need to wipe it off. I often feed through the cream as it helps if I@m sore.
Hope all goes well.

Thanks for all the advice, it's so lovely to get some support. Saw a lactation consultant today who has shown us biological nursing. Seems like a goodposition for us. May also try the thumb trick, thanks mathanxiety. She also thinks there may be thrush so out with the shells and in with jelonet! Wish me luck.