Is 20 weeks too young to introduce solids

[PeanutButter99]

DS is 20 weeks and ebf. I'm back at work so he takes bottles of emb. According to some of the threads I've read on here of late he should be taking an 1oz an hour.
Well, DS takes 3 bottles during the day of 6-8 oz and he feeds from me in the morning, after work and before bed. He is now feeding at least twice during the night as well.
It doesn't take a mathematician to realise he's drinking far more than what is recommended
Does he need some solids now? Is 20 weeks too young?
I'm over the ebf for 6 months as we've run out of freezer milk so will have to take some formula anyway.
Oh and distraction doesn't work and he's still on new born teats. He is screaming blue murder at the moment and stops as soon as he gets milk. When he has the bottle he cries when it's finished!

If the reason that the baby is not satisfied on bmilk alone is because there is not enough milk (for what ever reason) then surely giving formula is the answer (or donor milk though I realise this is probably not feasible in most cases).

If reason that the baby is not satisfied by bm alone is because they have reached the developmental stage of requiring solids (sitting up unaided/lost tongue thrust/etc) then additional solids is the answer.

In this case PeanutButter99 is trying to supply enough expressed breast milk whilst she works. Although through no fault of her own, there isn't enough EBmilk for her son's needs then surely if she cannot increase her expressing capacity to match then formula/donor milk is the answer not solids?

I understand babies may be ready for solids at different rates but if the baby shows no signs of being able to eat solids under their own steam they aren't really ready for solids (medical reasons aside of course) but ready for extra milk of whatever origin.

Well when I received a letter through from the Health Authority asking if i'd be interested in taking part in a study of early weaning ie 16 weeks I took that as they haven't a fecking clue really.
Needless to say I considered their "study" to be unethical and wrote and told them so but equally DS did have his first tastes around 20 weeks and I intend to build up to a proper meal routine by 7 months.
DD was bloody almost exclusively breast fed until she was 2 and eats like a sparrow and is around the same size.

truthsweet surely if she cannot increase her expressing capacity to match then formula/donor milk is the answer not solids?

i have never seen any study to back this up. the weaning guidelines are largely based on studies comparing ebf vs everything else (eff, FF & solids, BF & solids).
i believe formula copanies are also using this belief to market their product (eg 'can delay weaning' as a benefit..)
the allergies side of thing still in the undecided category - for gastro-intestinal health i don't see you can claim any difference!

You know your baby best. Start weaning if you think it best.

DD was weaned at 4 months, as per the advice at the time. I started DS on purees at 4 months as well, despite advice having raised to 6 months because he vomited incredible amounts of each breast feed. Purees increased the consistency of the mix in his tummy and he wasn't prone to vomiting as much nor often. They are both doing great.

I do think an element of increasing the weaning age to 6 months is that when it was 4 months, people talked about weaning "early" at 12 or even 8 weeks. At least now the guideline is 26 weeks people talk about early weaning at 20 weeks - which is a lot safer!

people on Mumsnet talk about it that way moon

EAS - if the baby (hypothetical baby NOT PB99's baby) was getting a inadequate volume of milk and was supplemented with pureed carrot/strained beans or similar early weaning food, as they were unable to eat finger foods they would need to get twice as much carrot puree to match the calories from bm (carrots have ~35kcal per 100g and BM has ~70kcal per 100g). This would have a knock on effect re. baby's growth slowing.

If the baby was supplemented with avocado or banana or similar high calorie foods (avocado has 160kcal per 100g so you would need to eat 45g to replace 100g of bm) then there might an increase in growth.

As formula is roughly the same calorie wise - though is more calorific to digest so a slightly larger volume is require for the same weight gain as BM then hopefully baby would maintain their growth pattern.

It would really depend on WHAT is being added to baby's diet not whether it is formula or food. Obviously donor milk would by pass all this but brings it's own problems into the equation.
If the

Except that growth is not that proportional to calorie intake.

Not sure what you mean Edgar - but surely it's better that more people are waiting til at least 4 or 5 months now instead of weaning at 12 weeks (or younger)?

True - but if a mum is making 400ml less a day (to pick a number out of the air) than baby needs and you replace that with 400g of carrot etc you'd be short 140kcals a day and about 15g of fat down let alone the other nutrients and minerals found in bm/formula. Obviously the baby won't slow down growth by 10% (or what ever) but growth could be effected to some degree.

Is there a magic day when suddenly they hit 26 weeks and phew it's OK to start weaning? I don't think so. I appreciate people mean well but really there has to be a bit of common sense.

If your baby appears still to be hungry, is a good size and shows signs of being able to swallow then why not start at 20 weeks, or 22 or 24?

Different countries have different guidelines. Our guidelines only changed very recently. They are guidelines and as long as you don't stray too far I am happy with them. Just mho.

If calories = growth, then add sugar and oil to each purée.

But they don't, really. There is no such direct correlation.

Unless, of course, what you mean by "growth" is horizontal - a baby getting fatter.

interesting here

bm - 22 kcals per ounce
formula - 20 kcals per ounce
baby rice prepared with one ounce water - 20 kcals per ounce.

if you prepare your baby rice with milk (and i don't know anyone who mixes it with water!) it is going to have more kcals per ounce than Bmilk alone, and certainly more than formula

which is not suprising as baby rice is 85% carbs!

so when people say 'it has less calories in it than bmilk' they are only right if it is prepared with water which no one does.

I know it is very unmumsnetty, but in RL I have never met anyone who got to 26 weeks before introducing solids.

My DCs have varied between 18 and 22 weeks when introduced to solids - they were ready for them at different times, but have all been big babies, and I felt, needed something more than milk.

If you feel your baby is ready, I would try solids - but don't expect it to be a miracle answer to sleeping!

Apart from all the people I know with IBS,

porcamiseria!

No, by growth I mean muscle/bone structure, nerves/brain and yes fat stores (fat is also used to coat nerve and brain cells not just thighs).
I did originally say that if the baby is showing signs of being able to eat under their own steam then solids are the answer BUT if a baby is NOT showing signs of being able to ingest food when put in font of them then MILK in any of it's myriad forms is more suitable.

It's all about watching the baby's developmental age not their chronological age.

I posted on here for same advice and got same replies!
My boy sounds like yours
He is now 24 weeks and has been having pureed veg since 18 weeks when I could not feed (ebf) any more, no one in our house was getting any sleep including other children.
He eats
6 am breast both sides
8.30 3 tablespoons of baby porridge mixed with 2tbsp home made fruit purée and made with formula milk
11am breast both sides
1pm lunch 4 tbsp (large ones) veg purée and a bit of formula mixed in about 1 oz
2 pm breast both sides
4pm 7oz formula frm bottle
5.15 same as lunch
6.45 breast both sides

He sleeps thru again 7 to 6
He takes a full breast feed, I know he does so no comments please that he isn't.

Oh and I should add that he is actually slipping slightly down his centile so I have full backing of health prof.

I say go for it.

Surely all breast milk is different? So some would be more calorific than others? I'm def on the common sense fence! If your baby seems ready ie able to pick up something and put it in their mouth, sit up relatively unaided and is very interested whenever you start eating then IMO they are probably ready (as long as they are more than 17wks of course!) I weaned my dd quite early (19 wks) as I felt she was ready, in hindsight I probably could of waited another couple of weeks but as it was my dd loved her food and thrived.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that all breastmilk is surprisingly similar.

So much advice. Thanks to all of you. You have all given me something to think about.
Even though the ebm is finished I (or rather DH and mum) will give formula instead. The solids is in addition to the milk. Just hoping to fill his tummy a little more. He tends to spew a lot more now and I think that could be the extra volume of liquid he's consuming.
I bought baby porridge at the weekend and the instructions say to make it with water. But am I supposed to make it with milk .
This weaning stuff seems very complicated. It's easy to just offer breast when he's hungry!
DS is showing all the signs everyone talks of. He can sit up with minimal support, looks longingly at me when I'm eating and puts everything he can pick up into his mouth!
I guess I just have to use my motherly instincts in this one.
Like you all say, the guidelines change every year!
When I was pregnant it was ok to eat peanuts but the year before it wasn't
He'

Surely all breast milk is different? So some would be more calorific than others?

true.

but IRL you will be comparing BM
with BM & baby rice from the same person at the same time, so a higher amount of calorific value in the BM would push up both sides of the equation.

itisIleclerc that comment about IBS is pretty daft.
pretty much all adults you know would have been weaned at 12 weeks old. if you want to say that IBS is caused by the early introduction of solids (as opposed to formula) then you better back that up with some evidence.

what i believe is that later weaning guidelines are causing people to use formula to supplement instead, believeing it to be better, when in fact there is no evidence of that - and what is more the delivery method can interfere with Bf as the baby finds the bottle easier (and yes, i have heard this happen with older babies). although not in every case as there are many here on MN that make it work.

well done you mayday for still BF - there is lots of benefit simply in duration of BF rather than exclusivity.

follow the packet instructions.
my comment was about baby rice, which has 'make up with babys normal milk' on he packet.

sorry for slightly hijacking your thread.

No problem. I'm quite new to mumsnet and love raading everyones comments, no matter what they're about. I think I'm going to have to ban myself from mumsnet while at work!