Several problems, incompatible solutions :-(

[HappyAsASandboy]

Yet another thread about breastfeeding my month old twins I'm afraid, but I can't seem to find a solution that solves my problems without exacerbating others . I am hoping that by writing everything thats going on, some clever person can tell me what to do to at least manage my problems so they don't get any worse

My 'issues' (in no particular order!):

1. I have two very windy/gassy babies, one of whom has been doing green poo for the past week. From Kellymom (and combined with some of my other issues), I think this is because I am oversupplying and my babies are getting lots of foremilk but never making it as far as the 'main course'.

2. I have engorged breasts that my babies don't normally manage to empty during a feed (they don't even come close). I think this may be because I started expressing very soon after the birth, but it is too late to fix that now . If I don't empty my breasts (particularly left one) with a pump every few days, I get hard sore lumps (blocked ducts?) that I am terrified will turn to mastitis if I don't express.

From reading Kellymom and advice on here, I need to let my breast stay full for longer to reduce oversupply, yet I need to empty my breasts to help with the blocked ducts. I am completely engorged within 3 hours of emptying my breasts with a pump.

Over the past 6 days, I haven't expressed anything and have concentrated on feeding one baby from one side in day/half day blocks. I still have windy, green poo babies and engorged breasts .

Today, I just had to express at 1am, as my breasts were so full and sore after both babies had fed and I have got hard sore lumps in my left breast. I got 4oz (quite a lot for me if I express after feeding two). I then engorged again before 6am and expressed another 4 oz before feeding my babies to try to remove some of the foremilk so that they could get the hindmilk. I then fed from engorged breasts at 11am as I was out and couldn't express, and then felt the need to express (another 4 oz) when we got in at 2pm (after feeding one twin, before feeding the other, expression from both sides).

Can anyone help me come up with a stratgy that will reduce my supply, help with the foremilk/hindmilk issue and leave me comfortable enough to wear a bra?!? I am at my wits end trying to balance it all. I like the theory of block feeding to reduce supply, and could probably cope with the engorgement for long enough for it to work, but this means feeding two babies from one side, which would surely over stimulate that side?

If it helps, I have about 25oz of EBM in the freezer.

I really hope someone can help, and sorry for the long post

i think that you should try and see a breastfeeding counsellor in person.

whereabouts in the country are you?

i think i would try just expressing off a minimal amount when you are very full. so if it's uncomfy, just express off enough that it feels ok rather than doing a big express

i know you know that if you keep taking it all off your body still thinks it needs to make that much, so the less you express the less you will make.

if you're feeling very full i think you could also express a little milk off BEFORE feeding the babies so that they get more of the fattier milk?

Try cabbage leaves in your bra. They really do work.

Congratulations on bf twins btw - I can only imagine how knackering that must be.

good pagehere from LLL

I'm near Huntingdon in Cambridgeshire.

Thisisyesterday - I have tried not expressing at all (you get used to the discomfort) for 6 days - how long should it take for the supply ti reduce? It is only today I have started expressing again

I saw a peer supporter today and she checked that all is ok with the latch (thought that might be why the babies don't empty the breasts and/or causing guzzling to cause wind). She said it all looks fine. It feels fine to me too, though I do have tender times (to be expected with two?).

Hi Happy, congratulations on your twins and well done for bfing them - good effort! sounds like you have over supply issues and need to calm the milk production down a bit.

block feeding like you say should help. so you want to express off just enough from the non-used side to be comfortable but not enough to stimulate milk production. feeding two babies from one side won't overstimulate or negate the other side as i am pretty sure your breasts work together. it sounds like you have literally gallons of milk so you could feed both babies from one breast for twelve hours, and then both from the other for the next twelve hours, expressing off a little to help with the engorgement. there is a case in the jack newman book where this worked to reduce the supply.

well done again!

if they are gaining weight and producing lots of both types of nappies and you are not sore, the latch will be fine. you can hold them more upright while feeding them so they don't gulp air, particularly if you have a fast let down.

it is early days. my supply was a bit bonkers for a while. it only truly levelled out at about 3 months. when i suddenly worried i had nothing lol.

Thanks Ruby. Thats good to hear that feeding from one side won't overstimulate that side - I am more than capable of feeding them both from one side (think I could feed 5 from each right now!).

Any more ideas? If not, I'll try the 12 hours for each breast approach ....

getting the jack newman book out hang on...

cross post, sorry Ruby.

They're both gaining weight and producing nappies

Yes, the peer supporter showed me a hold where the babies are virtually sitting upright. I hope this will reduce the gulping and hence the wind ...

there's an LLL group in st neotts next meeting isn't til the 10th december, but you can contact a leader before then. i've alwayhs found our local groups to be really informative

and there is a baby cafe in peterborough

the case in the jack newman book is actually one breast for 24 hours and then the other for 24 hours! crazy! she had to express of the other for a couple of weeks but then it became totally manageable...

lol you should start your own milk bank lol

in fact, might be a closer one on this list

i am not sure how long it would take for supply to adjust actually, i reckon if you continue to only express off the absolute minimum you can get away with tho then it should really help.

obviously if you are getting any lumps and bumps then you need to make sure that's dealt with, tho you can do that whilst feeding the babies...

There are BF clinics every day in Cambridge if you are okay about driving across.

i was going to suggest donating to a milk bank actually!

Donating to a milk bank sounds great, until I think of all the babies with wind and green poo that'd cause

MrsGangly, where can I find information about the BF clinics? I'm more than happy to drive to Cambridge, and would benefit from feeding with others/a professional for advice

Ok, so the game plan seems to be 12 hours with both babies on one side, with minimal expressing on the other. Then switch. I can manage that

Thanks for talking it through. I hope it doesn't take too long to settle down.

Must go and start the next round of feeding .....

Thisisyesterday, I'll have a think about heading into Peterborough for the cafe. I don't know Peterborough very well, so its a bit daunting with two newborns, but it might be worth a go! Will defninately head to the St Neots group in December though, thanks

awesome. see how you go. if after six-eight hours your one breast is totally empty (obviously it won't be but you know what i mean) and your baby starts fussing and maybe wants the other one, then you can offer it happily. the point is that milk from an emptier breast is fattier which is better for your gassy babies... you can always go for the twelve hours if that doesn't work....

good luck. defo get real life support like others have said.

the man himself on blocked ducts

There is a group in St Neots every Tuesday 11-1 at Dumbelton medical centre (address on this page) which is brilliant and helped me lots, run by Debbie an ABM counsellor with a LLL helper (newly qualified counsellor).

Thanks aendr, I'll try to come along to that meeting tomorrow or next week

I got the times wrong, it's 11-12:30. And though it's not usually busy, if it is the earlier you turn up the sooner you get helped.