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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

I just cannot get a better/ deeper latch

19 replies

moonstorm · 21/11/2010 15:06

I've worked really hard on the latch, and seen a lactation consultant. Things have improved, but need to be better. Ds is 5 weeks.

I have large brreasts (EE cup) and small nipples (often flat in the morning until he has fed a few times).

I've scoured the forums here (searching), been on countless websites and watched loads of videos... I've sandwiched the nipple/ flippled, tried biological nurturing etc, all help, but nothing enough...

My scabs have nearly healed, but not quite. So is there anything else I can do, or is it a case of wait until he grows and his mouth is bigger??? I have had pain free feeds, but it is often painful throughout.

I am dealing with thrush, but that pain is different - I can now feel the nipple being rubbed/ compressed - the nipple is often elongated on the side nearest his tongue...

Thanks again.

OP posts:

floozietoozie · 21/11/2010 15:37

Mmonstorm I can't help but can empathise as our latch isn't perfect either. I have the opposite to you - small breasts, large nipples, almost no areola particularly on the right. When dd cones off the left, the underside of the nipple is flat "lipstick" shaped, and on the right a bit pointed rather than round. I'm not in pain though but I'm sure she's not getting as much hind milk as she shiould be. I too don't know what to do about it except hope it changes as she gets bigger. As you know we've had growth issues so she has to have high cal formula two tines a day as well as bf right now. I'm hoping not to have to continue with that indefinitely.... Good luck!

Bumperlicious · 21/11/2010 15:43

No advice I'm afraid, just sympathies. dd is 8 weeks and latching is still hit and miss despite going to bfing group every week and trying all the things you mentioned. but it is more hit now than miss and i don't think i am doing anything different, so maybe it is just a case off wait it out. sucks though! hang in there :)

Original poster

moonstorm · 21/11/2010 15:43

It's so hard, isn't it? Glad you are not in pain.

Have you seen Dr Jack Newman's website? He talks a lot about breast compressions, says it's one way of helping them to get more of the hind millk - wonder if this could be of help

here

and here

OP posts:

NotQuiteCockney · 21/11/2010 17:06

Hmm, this sounds really exhausting for you.

The only thing I can really recommend is to pay lots of attention to the pain-free feeds, and see if you can find out why?

Luckily, your DS will be getting more milk, more quickly and easily, from the pain-free feeds, so he's probably working as hard as he can to work out what makes some feeds better than others too! Between the two of you, that should definately help.

You say his tongue is compressing your breast - you're sure he doesn't have a tongue tie, then?

If the flat(ish)ness of your nipples is a factor, that will sort itself out, permanently, ime, through more breastfeeding.

Original poster

moonstorm · 21/11/2010 18:22

He's been checked for t-t, and can stick his tongue right out, so I assume it's not this.

I wonder if, although he opens his mouth wide, maybe it's not wide enough, particularly for one breast. His mouth seems quite closed when feeding sometimes, mostly later in the day when the breast is soft or half way through the feed as he is draining it.. Yesterday there was no nipple pain, and the nipple came out perfectly shaped, but it was really painful as he seemed to be pinching some of my breast (not nipple or areola) with the corner of his mouth...

OP posts:

NotQuiteCockney · 21/11/2010 20:09

Ow, that sounds unpleasant.

Yeah, if he can stick his tongue right out, and it isn't heart shaped when it's sticking out, then the problem is unlikely to be tongue-tie - just something I thought was worth ruling out, iyswim.

Hmm, babies do the 'lazy latch' thing. You can take him off (break the seal first!) and reattach, and see if that helps?

Original poster

moonstorm · 21/11/2010 21:04

We reattach loads (maybe too much, but it hurts!!)

Just been reading another thread about a bruised feeling - he does feel like he is sucking on a bruise... No other symptoms at all, but I did have mastitis when he was a couple of weeks, and it was this breast... hmmm...

So dilemma - continue to feed through pain assuming I need to clear a potential blockage or reattach to get a better latch??

It was much easier last time!!!

OP posts:

CamperFan · 22/11/2010 10:34

Hi moonstorm, I am still having problems too. DS2 4 weeks today. It is my left breast that is problem - the nipple is smaller and different shape to the right. Am also still treating for thrush but I still can not work out if that is contributing or not. I too have pain free feeds, then really bad ones. Also he did have a tongue tie which was snipped about 10 days ago. I have tried everything too!

Original poster

moonstorm · 22/11/2010 11:16

That sounds just like us! Just don't know what to do next...

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HermyaAndThePomBears · 22/11/2010 17:23

Moonstorm We've been having this as well and have been trying all sorts. Funnily enough DS seems to have clicked in the last few days and his latch has come on in leaps and bounds and we've been having pain free feeds. I also think his mouth has gotten bigger as well.

Also I think that because you still have scabs, things will be tender for a little while. I could be wrong on this one though.

This sounds like a silly question, but have you been trying different positions (i'm sure you have)? My MW also suggested using a breast pump before feeding to get my nipples more nipple shaped.

Original poster

moonstorm · 22/11/2010 21:22

Thanks for the reply. Yes we've tried different positions, the rugby one does give a deeper latch, but still hurts like mad and there's no way I could do it out of the house with no pillows let alone whilst walking following ds1 around!!

Sorry if that sounded negative!! I've been scouring everything about deeper latches! How old is your ds now? Maybe after the 6 week growth spurt...

Think it really is the thrush making things worse - I've hade a stomach bug, so some tablets didn't stay down and I then didn't take them for a day because of this - sure things are worse now.

Ho hum

OP posts:

NellieForbush · 22/11/2010 22:33

Really feel for you moonstorm and sorry not to have any help. Just to say that I too have big knockers and small flat nipples and struggled for ages but did get there in the end. Used lots of lansinoh and tried to get some air to them. Sometimes massaging them before a feed helped soften them a bit which made it easier to latch them on.

Eventually dd got bigger and that helped (no problems now) but also as my milk supply regulated and my boobs were soft more often it was easier. I think this continued to happen for about the first 10 weeks.

5 weeks is still really early days and I think you'll keep seeing improvements over the next few weeks.

MumOfAPickle · 22/11/2010 23:14

Hi,

Similar problems here. I have big boobs, big areolas but small actual nipple bits...

BF'd DS for 7 months in the end but took us 5.5 weeks to get pain free feeds from both sides. DD is now 8 weeks and we're still struggling.

Have had pain free feeds from both sides at some points but its still 50/50 really. Have also got thrush (I think) but as DD has no symptoms my GP has only given me cream for my nips and nothing for her - does this sound right?

sigh sometimes I wonder if I should keep going. I know so many people (nice, normal people) who just give up as soon as its difficult and don't feel any guilt at all. I wonder if I'm struggling needlessly. But then I feel so bloody proud of myself when I go to get her weighed and she's put on more weight.

I just don't really know what to do. I'm convinced it is all to do with size and that DD's mouth is smaller than DS's and therefore its going to be sore longer. So do I just wait?

My only advice is to express - it gets me through the worst days...

CamperFan · 23/11/2010 11:16

pickle, I feel the same as you, and only you can decide when to stop. I do wonder why I carry on - I don't even really enjoy the pain free feeds that much, just can not get comfy.

If you do really have thrush then your DD needs treating too, even if she shows no symptoms. Take the BFN thrush pdf with you, I did and the dr even asked to keep it. I don't know if I have thrush or not, but treating just incase. /you might want to get gentian violet - you v=can get it from ebay, is easy to do and supposed to be v effective

MumOfAPickle · 23/11/2010 21:30

Thanks so much for your advice Camper. Will get back on to my GP asap and show her the pdf. She's quite lovely actually so I think she'll be fine with it and will appreciate the extra knowledge.

Know what you mean about the pain free feeds too - my back is wrecked from all the awkward positions I feed in. How is it that something so natural is so damn difficult?

Metalhead · 24/11/2010 11:51

I too struggled to get DD to latch on properly despite lots of advice from midwives and bf consultants. She just never opened her mouth wide enough I think. The pain gradually got better until it was only mildly uncomfortable from around 3 months, though now at 5 months it seems to be getting worse again as she's getting more distracted during feeds! I never thought it would be this hard...

MumOfAPickle · 24/11/2010 20:35

Well i've got the Nystan stuff for DD and a different, stronger cream. Fingers crossed this all works and it starts getting easier...

On the plus side took her to baby massage today which was lovely Definitely need to keep concentrating on the positive bits of looking after my beautiful daughter

Original poster

moonstorm · 26/11/2010 17:58

Glad it's not just me!

Pickle - how are thing? The thing that keeps me going is that in stopping, the Thrush still won't be treated, therefore I assume will still be there for the next dc... so I might as well sort it now. And having come so far, it's a shame to stop.

Baby massage is nice

OP posts:

beanlet · 29/11/2010 20:18

We had a crap latch for the first 6 weeks, with baby making nasty lipstick shapes out of my nipples, and it hurt like buggery every feed. I too have big boobs (36H), and one nipple that points sort of towards my ribcage (hard to explain). If it's encouraging, it resolved itself at the 6 week mark and I'm loving breastfeeding now.

Things that I found that helped:

Breast shells (NOT nipple shields) -- hard plastic half-spheres with silicon backs that keep your clothes off your poor sore nipples and let the air circulate (and collect leakage if that's also a problem).

Watching myself latch the baby on in the mirror, and working out that my nipples were a lot further out than I thought.

The breastfeeding counsellor showing me how to hold the back of the baby's neck -- I was holding it too far up. You need to think of it as a kind of hinge, and flip the baby on.

So sorry you're going through this -- it really is worth persevering, but I would never criticise anyone who stopped because of the pain.

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