Please help, my 12-day old is feeding and fussing all night and I can't cope :(

[plasticspoon]

Hi, my newborn ds is very sleepy during the day, has to be persuaded to wake to eat, then he has been up all night every night since my milk came in. He wants to feed constantly for up to 7-8 hours, crying and fussing and coming on and off the breast, with his hands getting in the way all the time. He just wants to suck and suck even when both breats feel empty. Then when morning comes he falls asleep for hours and I'm too tired to wake him because I've finally fallen asleep myself and so he ends up going 3-4 hours before his next feed (which he is not really interested in).

It's leaving me sore and exhausted and really down. I'm not just questioning the point of trying to bf but wishing I didn't have a baby at all. I can't stop crying. We're dozing in dangerous positions because he won't be put down at all at night.

Everyone I've spoken to has said that constant feeding for hours is not normal, and the mws have all suggested topping up at night with expressed milk or formula. I haven't done either yet but I don't know how much longer I can do this.

He is healthy and has started gaining - it's my sanity I'm wooried for :(

I could have written this post myself!!! DD2 is 20 days old and, as she wasn't gaining weight well initially, I topped her up for a couple of days alternatelty with breast milk and formula (1-1 1/2 oz), then since then just breastmilk and it helped massively. We were away at the weekend though and I couldn't sterilise so haven't expressed since thursday and I can tell the difference. I am so tired I feel shaky and have just had 3 nights in a row like you described and I cried last night I was so tired, sore and fed-up. I also find that she fusses at the breast because she is so windy - I can hear it rattling in her body and sometimes she is able to bring it up, other times not, and that means an unsatisfying feed.

She is gaining weight now and has plenty of poos and wees, but, like you, it is driving me insane!

The first thing I would say is is he actually feeding and not comfort sucking?

The fact that he can go so long between feeds in the day suggests to me that there is no problem with your milk supply, but I am no expert. I wanted to reply as no-one else had but I have 2 ds and no other experience of bfing.

DS2 comes off and fusses when he has wind, if I take him off and he burps he is fine to go back on. Both boys got their hands in the way when they were small as they don't have great control over their hands and would often push my breast out of their mouths before they got chance to latch.

I know that this is not current advice and that very few people do this but both mine were in their own room and I left them for small amounts of time to give them the chance to settle themselves. I am not a fan of dummies so never used one but I know people who have used them for babies that suck a lot for comfort and not for milk, it may be an idea.

It also possible that he is feeding frequently to increase your milk supply particularly at night.

Make sure you talk to your partner/mum/friends about how you are feeling. Tiredness is awful and really can make you feel terrible but be sure that it is only tiredness and not something more serious making you feel this way.

You really need to see someone face to face to talk through your options. Is there a local bfing support group near you the MWs can refer you to? A newborn baby is ever so overwhelming at all the times and with hormones flying around your body at a rate of knots, it's no wonder you are feeling tearful and unhappy. Have you got any support from your partner/mum/friends?

In the mean time, can you make your bed safe for co-sleeping so you can feed/doze through the night? There's some great advice here on how to do it. Could you put the baby's cot next to the bed so you don't have to get up to feed and then return baby to cot when he's finished?

Have you had his latch checked?

Please also have a look at this which shows you how to let baby latch on themselves, that might make things a bit easier for you

I'm sure you have tried this but a really tight swaddle prior to feeding (to get the arms out of the way) might help? I found it impossible to feed without swaddling at first but now DS seems to have worked out he can't suck me AND his hands at the same time so we don't bother. I did have to be a bit brutal with the swaddling or it jsut meant blanket as well as hands in the way, it seemed to calm him down a bit too... worth a try if you havent already?

This needs some good, face to face help, plasticspoon - it sounds a big struggle, but it's not possible to tell from your post if this is normal new baby behaviour or not. Constant feeding is not normal, but often when people say feeding is constant, it's more that the baby has frequent feeds and prefers to be close and in your arms instead of being put down, and sleeps best that way - and that is normal.

Where is the midwife in all this? Can you call and ask for a visit?

What about your baby's weight, and what are his poos like?

cinnamongreyhound - a 12-day baby going a long time asleep without asking for feeds is not a suggestion that there's no problem with the milk supply...the opposite, in fact :(

OP, you may or may not need some intensive help with getting bf going - long sleeps alternating with miserable and frantic feeding is a sign that something needs fixing to make things better for you both.

Like I said I'm not an expert at all but 3-4hrs between some feeds is what both my ds's would do. I was told never to leave them more than 6 at this age but thought 3-4 was ok? OP did say baby was gaining weight. I saw the post there for sometime and didn't want her to feel ignored, glad others can give more advice. Ds2 cluster fed in the evening which ds1 didn't do, it worried me initially and was exhausting can't imagine how hard it must be if it's all night.

cinnamongreyhound - OP's baby had to be woken for feeds in the day, not a good thing. Yes, some babies can happily go 3-4 hours even in the very early days at times. But my main point was that long sleeps are not a sign of sufficient milk, that's all.

Ok I stand corrected just thought that meant they were satisfied, very happy to learn!! Had a really rough time bfing first time around and had very little support. Ds2 is 9 weeks today and I'm still learning- such different experiences. Don't want to give wrong information just would like to use my experiences to help others. Really hope you get the help you need OP.

cinnamon, the risk with young babies is that they conserve energy by stopping 'asking' for feeds....staying asleep means they don't use up calories. It's a bit of a risky myth, really, that sleeping lots = good milk supply. A healthy, robust, energetic and thriving baby does not need waking to feed - he is feeding well, and wakes up sufficiently often to get what he needs.

Glad things have worked out for you :)

We had this.

Topped up with formula and mixed fed until tongue tie was FINALLY diagnosed and snipped.

Sympathies, it is absolutely dreadful

Do try and get professional face to face help with feeding but I would also advise trying to fix the day night confusion by aiming to feed as much as possible in the daytime, certainly no less than every 3 hours, and trying to get any sunshine that's going by walks at lunchtime if possible, or at the very least opening the curtains wide.
Good luck, I know it can be he'll, but with the right help you will get through it.

PlasticSpoon so sorry you're having such a miserable time. I've had some of this with my 8 day DS and from my experience you need to get support from a good BF counsellor asap. You should have breastfeeding drop-in centres near you, or your MW could put you in touch with someone at your hospital. Dont keep feeling like you have to soldier on alone!

My DS was actually admitted to hospital for feeding problems, not exactly the same as you, but I did have the same fussing, hands, on-and-off the breast, sleeping after 2-3 sucks and prolonged feeds. Long gaps between feeds were a sign of him losing strength and going into energy conservation mode, resulting in even worse feeding (don't panic, if your DC is gaining wieght this might not mean the same thing). I had a very good BF counsellor, and just in case it'sd of help, here is what she told me. On-off breast or 2-3 sucks and stopping was a sign that he wasnt latched on, so no point carrying on, I had to reposition him so that he could latch. If we dont have regular big sucks with jaw and ear movement, he's not on, despite looking on and doing small sucklings. To get a good latch i have to very slowly and deliberately go through the set up of bottom in elbow, tummy to mummy, chin to breast and nose to nipple. i also often get DH to hold his upper hand so that we dont get into a pickle - including waking him up at night to help. She said there's no point in persevering longer than 20 mins to get him onto the breast or we both get frantic, so now i have bottles of expressed milk in reserve all the time so we can both calm down and i know he's getting something. i also use these as post-feed top-ups to be sure he's not still hungry.

But all this advice might be right for my DC and not yours - please get some expert help soon!

Haven't cracked the sleeping thing yet BTW, but lots of people have told me not to worry till at least 6 weeks, he wont want to be put down and I don't need to have the battle, so just cuddling him asleep and then putting him down if he'll go, or staying with him following safe sleeping guidelines, and feeling much more human. More important to get the feeding sussed.

HTH - and good luck with your lovely DS!

A little anecdote from my midwife which made me feel much better and might help you: she looked after a mother who was a BF counsellor. She had 2 DCs who all BF'd like you'd expect the DCs of an expert to do. DC 3 came along and hadn't read the books, didnt click with BFing and she needed help herself to get it established. You are not a failure, your baby hasn't done a BF course and needs to learn the ropes along with you.

Thank you for your replies. The midwife has just been and suggested trying infacol in case the problem is wind as he starts the day off slowly and then gradually the feeds get closer and closer through the day. So when my I have loads of milk after a night of stimulation and a four hour break, he doesn't seem interested. His sucking is stop-start and half-hearted, then at night frantic and strong.

He seems to be having about 6-7 poo-ey nappies and lots of wet ones in a 24-hour period so mw wasn't worried but I am developing a fontanelle obsession and it felt distinctly concave this morning. It may just be paranoia though, I'm not really thinking straight. His jaundice has cleared up and when he was weighed a couple of days ago he had gained 3oz (he was 7lbs 1.5oz at birth, went down to 6 10 and on day 10 was back to 6 13)

The mw also wondered whether he is comfort sucking and suggested giving him my little finger to suck instead after he has been on for a couple of hours. She also suggested expressing some milk and feeding it to him with a syringe if the infacol doesn't work.

I searched for lactation consultants but can't find anyone who covers mid-Essex. Spoke to a LLL volunteer but while she was lovely I didn't come away any clearer...I don't know when to offer each breast as in the day I don't think he has emptied it so I keep offering the same one if he comes off, is that wrong? Then at night they're both empty so does it matter which one he has?

I have lots of family support, from my mum especially. Neither my husband nor I feel like we have bonded with the baby yet. Sorry, I'm really rambling.

I usually offer the same breast if he comes off for winding but the next feed he has the other one. If you keep giving the same one the other stays full and sends a signal that less milk is needed but if you change too soon your baby will get too much foremilk and can add to wind problems, from what I understand anyway.

Ds did this but the other way round, slept at night and fed alllllllll day which sounds blissful but wasnt because he was waking after 8 hours with a dry nappy - my milk supply was rubbish and he was sleeping through exhaustion, HV told me to keep going and not give formula but she was wrong!

When ds was dehydrated though you could see his fontanelle from miles away, it was VERY concave. I mean dd's (7weeks) is concave but only a little bit, ds's was like a hole in his head almost - sounds awful btu I hope it reassures you a bit because you would know imo. Also, like I say his nappies were dry after long periods.

Keep asking for help - your midwife should be your first port of call but you can always ask to be referred to the infant feeding coordinator at the hospital. It's the job of the midwife to help you establish feeding and until you're happy and confident you might have to keep pestering her.

plastic - horrible to be worried and anxious.

Fontanelle obsession begone!! Dehydration does not happen with a baby who is gaining weight normally (as yours is), who is weeing and pooing normally (as yours is) and who has been passed as healthy by the midwife (as yours has) :)

Stay close to your baby, marvel at his lovely skin and beautiful fingers and toes, his sweet little mouth and nose, and the way he snuggles into you - you will find love grows as you get closer :)