Need your moral support to carry on BFing please ladies - at my wits end

[PatsyPlusOne]

DS was 3 weeks old yesterday. Have not had an easy time of BFing, though promised myself I would try for atleast 6 weeks to give it a good chance, though I'm at the point where I really need some support to continue.

Have had my boobs out infront of 4 different MWs (not including several on ward in hospital), 3 different health visitors and now the BF counsellor from the local hospital too. All say latch looks good, optimal positioning, tummy to mummy, nose to nipple, DS getting big mouthful and doing lovely sucking action. He's clearly getting plenty of milk as he has put on 11oz since last Friday (going to be a big strong boy I htink ) but I AM STILL IN AGONY!!!! Every time he comes off my nipple is lipsticked. BF counsellor was fab when she came and spent 90 mins with me and DS trying all manner of positions and still no relief from the pain. She thinks that his mouth is just not quite big enough yet to suck in enough of my ample bosoms.

Please tellme I am doing the right thing for DS, or give me any hints and tips that helped you get through a difficult first few weeks BFing. I really need some moral support right now.

it's well worth persevering if you can. i had really flat nipples, and mw suggested a breast pump might 'nipple' them up a bit. would that be any help for you? two dds later they're no longer flat in any sense, but i don't imagine that will console you right now.

you're doing absolutely the best thing for your ds, it does hurt to begin with, your nipples do toughen up a bit, it could just be that they're super-sensitive at the moment. but if they end up a funny shape afterwards then you still need help.

you'll get there, just keep asking for help. from anybody. have you tried la leche league? nct? local surestart sometimes have a breastfeeding cafe. friends who have breastfed?

be brave, someone more knowledgeable will be along in a minute...

I understand your pain. Same scenario with DS1 and despite seeing lots of people they could not see a problem with his latch. i do wonder now if he had a slight tongue tie which no one had picked up.
After 2 months I stopped BF and expressed and have always regretted not being able to sort it out. I did find the Rugby hold was the best position to get a good latch though.

If you google Jack Newman videos he has some good advice on getting a good latch.

I

hmmm it could be many things!

has he been checked for tongue tie?

if you are in agony and nipple is misshapen then something is not right... are there any other local BFC's? i found out the hard way with ds1 that not all breastfeeding counsellors are equal!

hmmm he's obviously getting milk so that is good. its your nipples that need help .

my DS had tongue tie and so i had a nasty crack on one and both were horribly sore for a while. sometimes babies mouths need to get bigger before it gets more comfortable which is no fun for you but it won't be forever! (all the pros say that if there is pain there is a problem - sometimes it seems to be sooooooo difficult to solve as they need to get a deeper latch, and try as some women might, it doesn't seem to work!)

i'm pretty sure lipstick shaped nipples indicate a shallow latch

these links might help you get a deeper latch...

here

and here

Oh honey I feel your pain. The first weeks to get BF established are killer. At around 3-4 weeks I would watch the time pass on the clock with a sinking heart knowing it was coming nearer to time to sandpaper the nipples again!

I always said to myself in the worst points, I will try and do "one more feed" and somehow got through to the other side.

Reasons to continue; I love knowing I can just go out with DD and I have the meal with us, no having to prep bottles and track last feed. Cleaning up bottles/ making bottles in the middle of the night is massive hassle. The absolute best bit of BF for me is the night feeds. DD has just hit a sleep regression and wakes to feed 2-3 times in the night. This can be done, in the dark, lying down, me half asleep still. On bottles, the lights would need to go on, I'd have to wake myself up to make sure bottle going into face correctly, be watching carefully to see when she had enough. With BF she will just drop off when she's done.

I had massive problems with my ds, he was tongue tied so essentially ripped my nipples up and it took 10 weeks to heal from an open sore. I won't bore you with all the other problems I had but it was a really tough time and I would say the same as C4ro, saying to myself 'just one more feed' and it did get easier.

Now he's 6 months and I can honestly say that breast feeding is one of my favourite things in the world.

So really the moral of the story is yes it does get easier, your nipples will stop hurting and hang on in there, it will definitely be worth it.

9 years ago (!) I had a similar problem, not sure about 'lipsticked' nipples, but extreme pain, I remember my dh used to wince when he watched me bf because he could see how much it hurt me.

Have no idea what thinking is these days on nipple shields, but they were my salvation. For me, ds just couldn't find the shape of my nipple because they were so small. Even 9 years ago, mw who recommended I try nipple shields was a bit shame faced as everyone seemed to think they were the devils spawn. But after ds had fed through them, my nipples were a larger, normal shape. I only needed to use shields for a few weeks and my nipples had been sucked into a shape that ds could find and 're-establish' feed after feed. And the shields do diminish the pain while feeding, giving your nipples a chance to heal.

But because they 'subdue' the latch, they can affect whether feeding becomes established so you need 'supervision' - regular weigh ins eg. Because ds wasn't getting enough milk anyway, I was also using a breast pump after feeds and topping him up with that before next feed. All the sterilising was a bit of a but I just knew it was worth it, and when it stopped hurting bf was a DREAM! It is such a special feeling to look at a baby and think that other than one (sperm) cell you are completely responsible for making it what it is even up to 6 months!

Oh and for me, other than rugby tackle hold, learning how to feed lying down was a complete god send. Maybe we both relaxed or maybe every baby has a preferred position.

Good luck, I know you can do it.

The same was happening to me recently. I am of ample bosom also! I was seen by several people who said the latch looked good but I was still in pain.

My HV suggested tying a scarf round my neck and boob to lift it up to see the nipple better and since I've been doing that it's been pain free! Thing is there's only a few mm difference in latch between painful and pain free!!

Keep persevering, there will be an answer you just have to find it. So glad I persevered!

Thank you so much for all your helpful hints ladies. I'm sorry not to reply sooner, but it all got a bit much for me last night, so I went to bed not long after posting. He has been checked for tongue tie, but it is still something I worry about as his tongue is not alwats down whhen he opens wide to try and get on. I asked about nipple shields and was basically told they should never be used, but I may give them a go after reading here. even if it just lets my nipples heal. they are both badly cracked. ust knowing i'm not the only one to go through it helps.

I heard people mention jelonet to help nipples heal (or you could start a whole new thread for that).

You are doing so well and should be proud of all your efforts so far. 11oz wow

second what overs have said, keep trying different people in RL then hopefully you'll find the magical one

I read letting your baby sick on your finger first before a feed encourages them to put thier tongue down?

Nipple shields meant I could continue to breastfeed. DD was making my nipple a lipstick shape too and they were also really cracked, bruised and sore in the early days. When my breasts became engorged on day three DD wouldn't latch on due to her small mouth,and my flat nipples but with nipple shields she could latch on and would always draw my nipple out.

They never affected my supply either. I have lots of milk!

Still using them now with nine weeks old DD.

Suck! Not sick!

I had exactly the same trouble! took about 9 weeks for feeding on both breasts to be painfree...nearly gave up so many times but it was worth it and now it id fine (9.5 m on I can't get her to stop!! has morning and nite feeds only now). Are both sides painful? IF one is better than the other use the less painful side and give EBM from the sorer side. What sorted it for me was to give EBM from a bottle for 3ish days to give my sore side a chance to heal. After that I was super super vigilant about positioning, breaking seal etc. That was what broke the cycle for us and made breastfeeding so much more of a pleasant bonding experience (rather than one where I was banging my feet on the floor and biting my lip for 40mins!)

You have to decide what you can cope with and whether you feel you can continue. For me it was worth it but it is totally based on whether you feel you can keep going.

When we were at those early stages of cracked painful nipples, crying at feeds, feeds every hour- I just felt like there was no end to it all. I wish I had known about mumsnet then. Persevere if you can and don't beat yourself up if you can't.

Good luck and hope that it feels better soon

Patsyplusone, you have done fantastic so far. 11 ozs on one week! You must be so chuffed with yourself! Those first few weeks can feel like dc is sucking needles out if your nipples & you wonder is it ever going to end and it is. You do just have to take it one feed at a time. Could you do a few of the feeds from one side & express from other to get a bit of a break? I tried nipple shields for a few feeds at 6 weeks & they were such a relief (had thrush). I can remember feeding sessions starting & ending in tears. I got every bit if support I could whether through here, lactation consultant at hosp where I gave birth, bf group etc. Every bit if contact bought me some more time bfing. Dd now 4 months & am still bfing & it's an absolute pleasure. Your milk is the best source of nutrition for your son. Try and stick with it. You are doing fantastic.

I would recommend finding a lactation consultant (rather than a counsellor); as has been mentioned not all counsellors are equal. Try googling 'board certified lactation consultant' and finding someone local. Word of warning - they do charge for their services but mine was the best money I spent.

thanks again to all who have posted. Had a really rough weekend with mastitis setting in. was so bad I was delirious with fever and couldn't tell whst was wrong with poor ds when he was crying. DH had to shout at me to feedhim to get the message through . My mum has basically moved in since then and has been a godsend, feeding me up and forcing me to stay in bed!

A different BF counsellor came yesterday and I'm now trying nipple shields, which give some relief. it also turns out he does have a very slight tongue tie, so i'm trying to persuade them to sort it out. DH and i both have tongue ties and never knew it, neither of us were breast fed because our mothers were in agony with it and the message back then was 'just give a bottle'.

Still trying all diff positions and hoping something will work soon.