Depressed about friend - "top ups"

[mrsgordonfreeman]

I have a friend with a 7 week old and she was bf-ing perfectly well, he's happy, pink, alert, peeing and pooing and so forth.

However, DH got a panicky late night call from the boy's dad (also friends) who said that the health visitor had decreed that the baby was not gaining weight fast enough for her liking and that he should start getting top ups of formula.

DH suggested that the family should ignore this advice for now and get a second opinion if the slow weight gain continued. He said that if the mother gives top ups now, she will not start producing enough milk. He also suggested that the boy is having a growth spurt and that it's normal for babies to feed constantly.

I saw her at the weekend and she is feeding for 5 minutes a side and then giving a bottle of formula. She told me that she "does not have enough milk." I just shrugged sympathetically. What can I say?

I'm angry at the HV's advice and frustrated that DH and I could not do more.

Why does this happen all the time?

PS: the boy was on the 50th percentile throughout but was on a little downward curve.

I can sympathise. Bumped into a mum who had her baby at the same time as I had DD. She said she had to change to formula because the baby was feeding all evening and she obviously didn't have enough milk. Agree - what do you say?! Nothing. But it's crap.

I would say something tbh, no need to be mean or anything that might jeopardise your friendship. Tell her that the only way to increase milk supply is to feed more and it will catch up... you know what you need to say. Perhaps suggest she goes on the kellymom website or LLL?

This sort of thing really annoys me actually, because people do the first 6-8 weeks which is really the hardest bit and then get some crap advice which makes them stop just as the whole thing gets easier and so convenient. Grrrrr!

She said that she'd seen someone from the BFN and they had checked her latch and it was fine.

DH and I have both said that she needs to feed more but I think her DH might be influencing her: he was keen for her to express so he could give a bottle when the baby was only a week old, and wants the baby to have a routine (he is a bit obsessive like that). I also think her family are pressuring her as they have all ff. Her sister was showing off on FB about how her son (8 weeks) is sleeping through the night.

The same thing happened to us though: the difference is that I had the phone number of a breastfeeding ninja who had a sharp word with the HV, and I never gave any top ups.

She will almost certainly be fully ff within a month or even less.

The current combination of a misguided HV, unsupportive friends and family, a desire to have a routine and topping up with formula at every feed is too much for most breastfeeding to withstand.

If she is interested in getting proper help to feed more often - as you say, almost always the key to better bf - there are many nos. to call to find a listening and supportive ear.

On the other side of the fence, my first two DC refused to gain weight (I hated the term 'failure to thrive' - it made me feel a massive failure as a mother), and by giving them a top-up at night I was happier, more relaxed, and able to continue breastfeeding.

I know that on MN top-up ff is seen as the guaranteed way to stop bfing, but it's not always the case.

jeee - one top up at night is something some bf mothers can 'get away with', and in your case it actually helped psychologically.

This is different from the OP's friend's case; she is topping up at every feed, after a short bf.

Breastfeeding hardly ever survives that.

I know that, jeee, and if it were one bottle at night (which I think is what the HV meant) I would not be concerned.

I think she will be affecting her supply if she carries on like this.

I'll ask her if she wants some advice on phasing out the top ups as she did say that she'd like to do that. I'm just about to start peer support training so hopefully I won't sound like too much of a busybody.

Not sure if it is still current advice, but when I struggled to get ds1 to gain weight, I was advised to use a breast pump after every feed (or as many as I could manage) and then use that for bottle feeds (at beginning of next feed). Was a palaver but I was determined to establish bf and it worked. Would be a way for your friends dh to do bottles (for now!) without affecting her supply (except in a good way).

I also found that I wasn't letting ds feed for long enough...

Sorry, OP, I didn't read your post properly. In a way, I'm a bit sensitive on the issue, because I feel I should have exclusively breast fed. Reading you properly, I see the difference between your friend's situation and mine.

But unless she asks for help, I think you shouldn't offer it. After all, if she does go on to ff, she might feel embarassed to see you, which could actually damage your friendship.

ALso the baby in question has not "refused to gain weight" at that phrase. The baby in the op sounds perfectly happy and well.

MRSGF I would try and do something to help your friend and get her some decent professional support (and possibly complain about the HV)

Before I had bfed my friend had a baby and wanted to bf. SHe was given what I now know to be crap advice and I still feel bad that I was unable to help more.

Youu will know best how to help your friend, you also know that she does need help.

My baby had formula top ups (in all honesty, it was more than top ups) from day five to day 21. Two friends of mine who had been mws told me it can take up to six weeks to establish an appropriate (not sure that's the right word) milk supply. In the end it took only three weeks.

There is so much outside influence to ff. Hearing about babies who sleep for hours on end and are on formula. Baby mustn't use mummy as a dummy. Baby isn't feeding, he's just comfort sucking. You'll never ever be able to leave the house again. The nonsense we have to put up with listening to just goes on and on.

I would like to help, particularly as she does want to phase out the top ups. I also know that she needs to do that ASAP.

We are not so close that I could broach the subject without feeling pushy.

Any suggestions on how to do that?

Through the dads?

email a link (imagine kellymom might have info on supply and top ups) and say it's something youu've been reading up on prior to peer support training (good on you btw and ) and you'd be happy to hold her hand a bit.

Make sure it's clear that it isn't too late to reestablish a good supply.

ment to include a ? at the end of that first par

That's a good idea, tiktok.

DH is more informed about breastfeeding than most women I know and he has been friends with this chap for decades.

I will get him to give him a gentle prod.

I think it takes a certain sort of bloody-minded individual to ignore HV advice and/or seek second opinions and while they are both very intelligent and successful in their respective fields, they're not that sort of person.

This seems so common around here. I have a number of friends/acquaintances who've had babies this year and I'm the only one who has made it to 6 weeks with formula (we're now at 5.5 months). I had thought about becoming a lactation consultant - I still might but it'd be a real struggle to have any impact. I have no issue if ff or mixed feeding is what people want or have to do but I get so tired of hearing about stupid hcp advice and unsupportive families/partners and unrealistic ideas about frequency of feeding or sleep etc. I put a lot of time in with a friend who was struggling with bf and it all went to pot because her mum advised she should only feed the baby three hourly. Don't let it upset you OP - we can only do our best.

Grrrrrrrrrrr. This makes me despite my current quest to be zen :)

we had about five mws and hvs advise us to do this. One sent us to paed A and E with 'mother refuses to give top ups' written on our notes. Every one of those people was sitting in front of a Breast is Best poster or similar when they were dishing out their advice.

I agree that you have to be really bought in and bloody minded to withstand it all. Luckily I am really bloody minded and dh was a total fucking rock.

Can you just be honest with her? Give her a call and say 'Look, I know this is hard and tell me to do one if you like but you know I'm doing this peer support work and I'd never forgive myself if I thought you'd wanted some help and I hadn't offered it'

I would say something like - "do you want to continue to breastfeed" - and take it from there.

re: top ups - if its because of weight gain then I would suggest she sees different HV to really assess whether its a problem.

re: the 5 mins on each side - I would say something along the line of not having enough breast stimulation with such quick feeds and it will reduce supply even quicker.

agree about some good web links.

I thought about the lactation consultant route but tbh I feel that it's not the sort of advice I'd be happy charging for and I'd have to do that to cover the costs of the training.

I'll get DH to tell her DH that I am happy to try and help her if she wants the help and leave it at that. I know how vulnerable they are both feeling at the moment.