BF/Formula/Expressing/Thrush/Bleeding Nipples - its all gone wrong

[sweetpea5]

Ive had so many issues with BF. Baby is 7 weeks - I have had mastitis & thrush, dd has had a tongue tie cut at 4 weeks. Firstfew weeks was ebf then problems kicked off so started expressing, couldnt express enough so added in formula. Last week I spent a whole week giving half expressed/half formula with once a day puting her on the breast on left side as this was bearable.

Started again on bf again on Monday, (along with expressing 3 bottles) but have had to stop on right side as its just too sore. Left side not sore but I dont think she is getting anything from it.

For example - this morning I attached her on left side. She was on for 1.5 hours. I took her off (had to eat!) - she started crying and cried til I reattteched for another 30 minutes. She came off still not seeming satisfied. I then pumped and got 100mls from that side - the same as I get without having fed her, so seems like she got nothing at all after all that time on the breast. Igave her the 100mls and she drank it all and fell straight to sleep.

I don't know what to do. I really want to breastfeed but:

• I can't on the rightside - it is so sore. I have had so many people check latch etc and noone can help. It might still be the thrush, but I do think she is not latching right.

• She doesn't seem to be getting anything from the left side

I am so confused with how much expressed milk she should be getting and how expressing will keep up with her demand as she grows, and how I can survive all this expressing time. I want to leave the house once in a while! I am so gutted that this has gone this way. I really want to breastfeed her so much.

Sorry this is super long, any advice appreciated x

Sorry you have been having such a hard time. Have you had any contact with a breastfeeding counsellor?

whereabouts are you?

maybe something of help here

I think you need to see someone quickly who can watch you feed and see what's going wrong. Many "experts" don't really know what they are talking about. Can you afford a professional private bfing advisor?

Sweetpea, how horrendous for you and you've done brilliantly getting this far in the face of it all.

You say lots of people have looked at the latch but have you been to your nearest bf clinic or called LLL/NCT? Keep asking for help until you get it.

However you deal with it, it will get better, really it will.

oh dea me what a nightmare!

firstly big massive hugs - this sounds like such hard work.

in my limited knowledge i know that through mastitis you should feed through it. mastitis is an infected blocked duct - you need to keep the mik moving and empty the breast as often as possible - this can mean expressing post feed for a while. hot flannels can help with the pain as can massaging the breats during the feed towards the nipple. mastitis can escalate over 12 -14 hours and you must complete the anti biotic course.

mastitis should be treated with antibitics which sadly often cause the thrush - as if the mastitis isn't enough! you need to get you and dd treated for thrush as you can keep reinfecting. also because thrush is a fungal infection you need to be extra vigilant with hygeine - boil wash for everything and plenty of antibacterial.

unless you have been advised otherwise by gp you can take paracetemol and ibuprofen.

like the others though i would seriously urge you to seek professional bf support - you are doing so well but i think you need help.

Thanks for your replies.

thisisyesterday - I'm in London.

Ive had a breastfeeding councellor come round and also paid for a lactation counsellor a few weeks ago - she was lovely and dd did seem to feed ok when she was here, but the next day my nipples start to bleed again, then new bout of mastitis then thrush. We did have the tongue tie snip after that though. Do you think I should go for another lactation consultant appointment? So expensive but if I though it might work it would be worth it. Just that I have seen so many people and nothing has really helped.

sungirltan - thanks for that info. I am on my second course of antibiotics for the thrush and I think it is gone (deep breast pain is gone), but maybe there is some left in the right nipple. Hopefully by the end of the tablets it will be better.

Right nipple looks a bit better today but there is no way I can use it to feed her.

Blueydragon - I have phoned the BFN who were very nice, but I was already doing all the things they suggested re hold, positioning. Can never get a response on La Leche League. I havent been to a bf cafe yet - it's been too painful feeding (tears etc) to do in public so far.

Have you asked your HV? I appreciate that most of them (unless they have a special interest) are not experts on breastfeeding themselves but just thinking that they may have contact details for some local free advice/organisations.

sweatpea - other things can cause mastitis, these include badly fitting or underwired bras, tight tops, pulling your boob out of the top of your bra/top (i did this constantly!) to feed, holding the boob whilst the baby is feeding (like a bottle). basically anything which puts pressure on the breast can cause the blocked duct which leads to the mastitis.

has your baby been treated for thrush? symptoms can include white inside their cheeks or sometimes their gums just look very shiny.

appreciate the right side if awful - are you expressing on that side still? mastitis much more lieky to hang around unless you are draining the breast often.

well done for sticking with it, you are enduring a lot xx

Good idea - will get info from HV - she couldnt really help with the latch.

Yes had baby treated for thrush and the white patches are gone from her mouth. She is still being treated, along with me. I am still expressing on the right side - expressing doesnt hurt, weirdly! Don't think I am doing anything on your masititis list - except maybe holding the boob a bit. Will have to stop that. (I am quite massive in the boob dept so cant get them out the top of tops...!)

Thanks so much for the support. I feel so desperate and disappointed that it is going so badly.

sweatpea, as others have said, you've done so well to stick with bf so far. i completely understand the pain you are going through - i saw a brilliant bf consultant and she was excellent at sorting out my problems (which were very similar to your own). have a look at www.letsbreastfeed.com/
geraldine is a genius. when i saw her i was at the point of giving up - the pain was so unbearable on both sides i was starting to dread feeding my dd. but she quickly sorted us out and my nipples healed completely - and i distinctly remembering my surprise at how by the end of my consultation with her that i wasn't feeling any pain while bf. it was the best money i ever spent! i also used paw paw cream on my nipples and wandered around the house topless most of the day to let them air - that seemed to help quite a bit. but it did take time to clear up completely. meanwhile, my dd is now five months and we are still breastfeeding happily. good luck!

hey no probs. don't be fooled - even if it goes perfectly, bf is effing hard work!!

i just remembered the other thing with thrush is warm damp environments - try and wear cotton and or keep nipples as dry as possible - whip out the pads as soon as they get wet, esp if they are the plastic backed ones etc and sit with your boobs oput in the air often if you can - not the most fun i know!

sweetpea, i wouldn't pay good money to see a lactation consultant when there are other ways of getting advice for free!

my top suggestions:

La Leche League. our local groups are fantastic and have helped me through many a struggle.
you can see if you have a local group here

or the baby cafe. I was lucky enough to have my local branch run by the 2 lactation consultants who founded it! again, you can find a list of local ones here

you can give the LLL numbers a ring now, if you want to, they are generally manned all the time!
I really think you would benefit from someone checking your latch and positioning again post TT snip and helping you through with whether or not you need to express and how you can get back to exclusively BF if that's what you'd like to do
sometimes it's just a confidence boost that is needed! that's why i like places like the baby cafe... you can go every week and just get a bit of support that you're doing the right thihg

Hi, DD latched for me fine, but flutter-sucked rather than 'big mouth' sucked, so would spend 12 hours a day on breast and not actually be eating, leaving me with full breasts (although dwindling supply). Can you get someone to check the suck? We ended up expressing as DD's weight was dropping - if you choose that route Kellymom has loads of useful info on how much expressed milk babies need etc here