Desperate to get baby to suck. Is there ANYTHING else I can do?

[InvaderZim]

Oh, I hardly know where to start, but after baby losing 15% of her birth weight and being admitted to hospital last weekend, we're on the attempt to breastfeed + EBM + formula roundabout and don't seem to have any way out!

(She's 12 days old, by the way. Crash c-sec.)

I had to start EBM + formula top-ups, as she was desperately dehydrated. My EBM supply is slowly increasing (60-80ml avg per pump), but the big problem is still breastfeeding.

See, my daughter is really good at faking it! She fooled a dozen midwives, and she fooled me, into thinking her latch was good. She makes all the right motions, and is getting better at her gape, etc. She will look as though she's latching on, and sometimes she will, but she always lets the suction go after a few sucks. My milk is right there, sometimes pouring down her face, and she doesn't suck.

The idea that she's going to get more and more used to the bottle and continue to NOT SUCK at the boob is getting to me, and I'm tired of crying over it.

And I'm tired of making "this sucks" jokes.

I always thought I'd be a long-term BFer, so this is hurting a lot.

Anyone have any words of wisdom? I need to know that this isn't the end, that there's hope still left.

I have been to the Baby Cafe for help and support, which has been good (clinic at JR Oxford closed until next week. :( ), but at this point I'm doing everything right, and I don't know how to encourage HER to keep trying.

I'm not sure I can give you much practical advice, just lots of sympathy. This happened to me too with one of my twin girls (now nearly 8!). Her latch was fine but she just kept bobbing on and off the breast. I did persevere with her, and she did get better - once she eventually realised the connection between sucking and being properly fed. Was your baby premature at all? Sometimes their suck reflex isn't fully developed until they're close to term. Are there any NCT or La Leche League counsellors locally who you could consult? I also spent quite a few hours in the JR clinic, though I think we eventually resolved the problem on our own.

Sorry not to be of much help, but I do remember how immensely frustrating it was when the milk supply was clearly there, but she just couldn't access it properly. Hope things improve for you soon.

Would a supplemental nursing sytem help?

Medela do them.

Good luck- hope things improve with time.

have you had a qualified breast feeding councillor check?

My midwife advised me to rub a finger under my dd's chin and down her neck when she was feeding as this would help her swallow and suck. Don't know if that will help?

Sinkingfeeling: Not early - 15 days late! Good to know it eventually resolved.

Crikey: I've thought about SNS, but I don't know how much use it'd be if she keeps popping on and off the nipple.

Moonface: The lady at the BabyCage is great, almost positive she;s qualified - she does private LC too.

DrEeeville: Interesting! Might help keep her interested.

I would suggest spending lots of time skin to skin with her. If you can afford it you can employ a lactation consutant to visit you at home (50 to 80 pounds). Otherwise there are lots of free helplines NCT, Breastfeeding Network, ABM, LLL you can try for ideas.

Have you had her checked out for tongue-tie. It is v common and can cause problems with sucking. It is a very easy procedure to have the small piece of skin snipped and babies often sleep through it so it must be virtually painless. It can be difficult to spot so worth asking a specialist locally.
Try googling it. It can make a huge difference to breastfeeding.

Good luck

Of course, just after I posted she had a good ol 15 minute session and fell fast asleep. We've been doing skin-to-skin this afternoon (I kept forgetting about it, with fatigue and all ) and I wonder if it's helped? It's certainly made ME calmer!

Have you tried breast compressions to get the milk in fast whilst she is sucking? Might help to keep her interested. You can google it but it basically means squeezing.

Have you tried going to bed with her for 48 hours with you wearing no top and DD just in a nappy? It might encourage her to take lots of tiny feeds and will show her that the breast is a lovely milky place to be. I know that is hard when you have to express but it might help.

Re the expressing, are you massaging your breasts whilst expressing? Are you using a double pump (many women get loads more that way, me included)? Are you doing it at least every 3 hours including once 1am - 5am (when hormones are at their highest)?

Hang in there. You are doing a great job

Sorry, just read your last message...that is great! The skin to skin seems to have helped. More can only be a good thing.

Hi,

I had a really similar issue. DD was born on time and managed to fool midwives that she was feeding ok and so we were discharged the following day. However it quickly became apparent that she wasn't feeding and she lost more than 10% of her BW. So we were re-admitted and put on the BF - EBM formula top-ups system every three hours which was hellish. The best advice I got was to try and breastfeed her for ten minutes at each feed (well more if she latched on well, but not to keep attempting to latch longer than this as it stressed us both out) before following with EBM and formula. Eventually she learnt how to do it and by 3 weeks were off top-ups and are now EBF at 12 weeks. She has had no nipple confusion issues and prefers to BF to the odd bootle of EBM that she gets if I go out. I think the fact that she got strong enough on the EBM meant she could how to BF, which does take strength for babies! I would certainly suggest the ten minute thing. We also did lots of skin to skin, I particularly recommend doing this in the bath - she still loves it and will do the manic routing thing now! Best of luck similar name OP!

They can break your heart with this, I was the same. I remember in the middle of one of my breast feeding nightmares (I have had 3 now in total I phoned La Leche and she told me to lean right back, and place the baby on top of the my belly with her head above the breast. I think that it encourages them to suck because the milk does not trickle in with gravity, so they have to suck it in. I think she said it reduces wind/colic because it slows the flow down and they don't need to gulp it.

Having just read this it sounds like the opposite of what you need sorry.

Hope it helps, and the best of luck.

Great that you've had a better session Invader- may be the skin to skin and the breast compression will be enough to get things going.

The SNS would avoid having to use a bottle and it can improve the latch as they do get some extra 'reward' (of milk) through the tube when they are latched on OK. But I take your point that it could be fiddly.

Stick at it - you'll get there slowly but surely.

I had a similar experience with my DS and I sympathise, it is so stressful and frustrating. It did get better though, and I breast fed him to 18 months. One thing I found, was that I had a very strong let down and I think especially at first he didn't like it, and fed better when I wasn't so full. I think maybe he didn't like the feeling of the milk literally squirting into his mouth rather than him controlling the flow with his sucks. Hope it gets easier soon.

OP,hopefully you'll get some replies from more experienced hands here but we had v similar issues with DS, now 5 weeks - he lost over 10% of body weight and had a very convincing fake suck happening - he just didn't want to work for his food. Only difference is that on the advice of the hospital lactation consultant we were cup feeding him EBM rather than bottle feeding it as she felt that if we started with a bottle with DS, we'd have trouble to shift himn off it as he was so impatient for food.

I second the advice to get a lactation consultant to visit you if you can afford it. We did and she suggested a switch to finger feeding to improve the strength of his suck / help him make the connection that suck harder = food. It was a total PITA to do the supplemental feeds that way but we saw a change in the strength of his suck within 24 hours, and after about 2 weeks, we are down to almost no supplementary feeding. A health warning is that finger feeding is what worked for us - there's info on Dr Newman's site but as you'll see he much prefers the lactation aid wherever poss.

Thanks to everyone who has responded. Things seem to be slowly (veeeery slowly) getting better. We are doing lots of skin-to-skin today (I've figured out the Moby wrap, ha!) and I am offering her the boob whenever she looks even remotely hungry or upset. :)

We should be having a NHS lactation person visiting us tomorrow, but you never know how that's going to work.

Anyways, feeling a bit more positive today. I haven't cried over it yet, at least. :)

I had similar problem with my DD - she was born full term but only weighed 2.108kg and was really difficult to latch on/was ?physically too small to latch on.

After a few days of stressing that she'd never br/feed easily, a friend (who'd had 2 prem babies) visited and advised using nipple shields - we headed out and bought some that afternoon and it helped immediately.

She's 6/52 today and we've pretty much stopped using them (hit a little blip this week as she's had a cold so using them again to help her latch).

Found the best ones were the medela ones (available in mothercare). It's relatively cheap, v easy to use and doesn't change the feel of br/feeding too much (positioning/handling still the same).

Am now big advocate of the use of them and am surprised their not suggested more given that they can (and have in my case) preserved br/feeding.

HTH :)

Similar thing happened to me - baby just wouldn't latch on until about 3 weeks and we were on the try-top up with EBM and formula-express roundabout too - exhausting and demoralising, so huge hugs to you - I know how it hard can be.

When she did finally start latching on I thought she was doing ok but she wasn't - we had a blip and she lost weight as she wasn't feeding properly. Finally a tongue tie was diagnosed at 5 weeks - breastfeeding clinic observed her latch and they said she was ok, but looked to be tiring easily - and it was snipped at about 7 weeks. It did make a difference, although she still needed some time to master it.

Please do ask to be referred to a tongue tie specialist ASAP in case this is the issue - the snip takes seconds to do and it doesn't do any harm, but it can make a massive difference to breastfeeding. Good luck!

She does/can stick her tongue out, so we've been told she won't have a tongue tie...

Had another good day with two feeds which seem to have satisfied her for 1.5 hours each. Third feed I was a bit "empty" following pumping so not surprised she was still hungry afterwards!