Looking for some advice on breast v bottle

[ScMacBt]

I'm currently 25 weeks pregnant with 2nd dc and bottle fed first time round due to not having breastfeeding as an option. However would really like to beastfeed this time round, but all i hear is horror stories and people telling me not to do it. Does anyone want to share there experiences just to help me see both sides of the story?

I thought BF would be hard because of all the stories you hear, but at the same time it was the one thing I didn't worry about - as I found pregnancy a bit overwhelming at times. As soon as I could after delivery I shoved as much nipple in as possible and wouldn't let her mess around and that was that. Sometimes I wasn't sure about things (how to hold her etc, but somehow your instincts just take over)

I don't want to get into the politics of it all or sound judgmental and I know some have real problems but for me it was so natural. I feel like this is what I am here for IYSWIM. It is hard at times, but anything fulfilling takes a bit of effort. There is NO way i could be arsed to do formula bottles either - how anyone thinks that is easier is beyond me ( as many others have said).

One point to make to the OP, is that many (the majority) of women on MN who exclusive breastfeed also cosleep- there was a recent thread on it and I was quite surprised- think there were only 2 of us out of about 30 who don't. If you choose not to co-sleep you do lose some of the night time convenience and if you have a baby on a very short cycle, the higher frequency of night time feeding might take it's toll.

Therefore, sleeping arrangements are an important factor to consider in conjunction with how you deciede to feed IYSWIM.

I'm not saying it's impossible to ex bf if you dont cosleep- I manage, but my son does 3/4 hrs at night- not sure I could deal with it on a 2 hr cycle.

I love breastfeeding too- yes, we've had some issues but breastfeeding is constantly changing- how things are at 1 week will be so different at 6 weeks or even 26 weeks.

For me bfing isn't just about the 'feed' itself- it's a great excuse to sit and relax with your baby and a brilliant comforter.

AFAIK, you need two hands to bottle feed, but when you bf, you can use your spare hand to eat, read, change the TV channel, hold the phone, mumsnet etc.

Oh and you get the best grins and sighs when they've had their fill.

Have a read of The Food of Love by Kate Evans- can't recommend it enough.

and good luck

Interesting point Bagged (and apologies for the highjack OP) as I had been wondering about this in terms of considering sleeping options for DC2.

I did not co-sleep with DS1. He only fed once or twice (in the very early days) in the night anyway but always needed a nappy change (poo) after each feed so I didn't really feel I was getting up to feed him, more to change him.

Does this work differently with co-sleeping? e.g. do babies tend to feed little and often and perhaps not need a nappy change?

My ds is now 11 weeks, and has fed twice in the night since quite early on - something like 8pm/2am/5am/8am. He did poo after every feed for the first few weeks, but I handed him to DP to change (fair division of labour!). Doesn't need changing from 8pm-8am now.

Thanks for all your lovely stories it has definetly made me more determined than ever to try it now. I am fully prepared for the whole being the only person to feed dc but as a single parent that was always going to be the case anyway so that wasnt my main issue.

With co-sleeping is it safe? I was always very against taking ds now 6 into bed with me as a baby and have never heard of co-sleeping so im intrigued.

Also ff has changed massively since i had ds you know have to prepare all bottles as you feed, where as with ds i made 4 before bed for night feeds and then 6 in themorning for through the day. So i dont think ff will be easier as i cant imagine having to wait on a kettle boiling, preparing the feed and then cooling it down so it can be drunk will be easy with a hungry baby at anytime let alone in the middle of the night.

Co-sleeping is safe as long as you follow the guidelines. here is an article that you may find useful.

In the early days of frequent feeding, I found it a godsend. When they get a bit more wriggly it gets harder and DS starts in his cot and sometimes ends up in our bed now.

Yes, guidelines for making up bottles do seem to have changed so that is something else to consider. Personally I'm not sure if you can make them up in advance but I'm sure someone will know.

Anyway, if you do run in to problems once you start feeding, then you'll get loads of help and support right here.

Had a look at the article, it seems to echo all the things i was worried about with ds when he was first born. My plan is to have the moes basket at the side of the bed, i do have a kingsize bed so baby could co-sleep without risk of me rolling on top of him/her. It just seems like such a minefield maybe because it was drummed into my head from the minute ds was born by health professionals that you never take a baby into bed with you to sleep.

with ds he was a very hungry bby and woke up every 2 hours for a feed but that all seems like a distant dream now and im sure i will be back to reality with a huge bump.

A lot of HCPs are changing their minds, the main HV I saw never had any problems with me co-sleeping with DD and I was given a LLL leaflet about safe co-sleeping by the MWs when I left the hospital.
I think that the NHS was worried about people co-sleeping but not following the rules but if you take the right precautions then it's perfectly safe so now they are are more accepting of it.

I'd never thought about it before either but I will definitely be doing it again with DC2, it's brilliant not having to get out of a nice warm bed or even sit up

I have the MW on thursday make ask her about it all then. I was advised by most people not to tell any HCVs about my wish to bf until the day i had baby as they can be quite full on and if i change my mind there can be a lot of guilt tripping etc. But if i change my mind i shall just politely inform them that its my body and my choice.

I really do think bfis a more sensible option this time round due to the fact ds is at school and its hard enough trying to get me and him, fed, washed and clothed in time for school som mornings without having to add faffing about with bottles etc into the equation.

No horror stories here either - had no problems. Exc BF DS until 18 months.

The main advantages are:

• no washing up
• free
• no carrying things around & faffing.
• helps you lose weight

I hear there are some health benefits for you and the baby too

Re: co-sleeping - I was always told by HCPs that it is 'against guidelines' in that nudge nudge wink wink way that communicated they disagreed with the guidelines. You need to do it safely though as per the link.

Re: co sleeping, I have never done it. My DH and I just don't feel comfortable with the idea. However, I have found that this hasn't made breastfeeding any harder. I find it hard to feed lying down anyway because I have big boobs, so I have always just sat up and breatfed.

Definetely try and get to a support group now, I cant recommend them enough!

ScMac Rolling on the baby won't happen if you cosleep lots from birth. Your hormones are all on red alert and your body is in perfect harmony with your babys. It knows when your baby likes to feed, it's sleep cycles etc.

If you DON'T cosleep, your body loses this skill and then 3 weeks later a tired out of tune body 'might' be less aware and roll on the baby. Even still this is Extremely unlikely, but less likely to happen if co-sleeping is the norm iyswim.

Its all so confusing to decide on what to do. On occasions were i fell asleep with ds in bed beside me i was always very aware but always felt really guilty upon waking as it was deemed as "wrong".

Although i do see your point starkandwitcheswillfindyou that your body seems to be in harmony. Even now if ds sleeps beside me im very aware of him and evry move/sound he make and he is 6.5.

I loved BF DS (now 14 months as still has a feed in the morning). Completely agree with getting lots of support, joining groups, and having your mindset on just feeding the baby for the first few weeks (my DS was my first though - sure others will have advice about BF when you have another small DC - I'm guessing arranging support for the first few weeks would be helpful). Also try the kellymom website for helpful info & advice on lots of BF topics. Re: co-sleeping. We didn't do it when DS was very small (although we have done on and off from when he was 4 months), but he was in a carry cot right next to my side of the bed. If I were to have a baby again I'd think about getting one of the cots that attach to the side of your bed. I think its called an 'Arms reach co-sleeper'. Sorry no link but I'm sure a google will find it. Good luck .

The midwives when I was in hospital didn't have a problem with co-sleeping (and it's a Unicef "Baby Friendly" status hospital) - in fact it was a midwife who showed me how to feed lying down and co-sleep safely.

We got a bedside cot, so one side comes off and the base height can be lined up with your bed. I find it's the best of both worlds really, as ds is close to me and I can just pull him over to me and latch him on in the night, but I can always put him back in the cot after a feed if I want (and am still awake!). I find when he sleeps close to me I'm really aware of where he is, I don't feel I'm going to roll on him. My bigger fear was pulling the duvet over his head accidentally, but I either put him on top of the duvet, or tuck the end of it under the bottom end of the mattress so it can't be pulled up.

Generally ds starts the night in his cot, I scoot him over into the bed to feed at 2am and then scoot him back afterwards - although often I fall asleep feeding and don't wake up to scoot him back til an hour or so later. After the next feed at 5am he tends to stay in bed with me feeding and dozing til we get up at 8am. I'm glad I don't have to spend any time in the night settling him back into his cot!

I have the Arm's reach co-sleeper. Got it second hand for twenty quid and put a new mattress in it [smug cheap bugger emoticon]. It's brilliant. I couldn't have him in the bed because he was a wriggling kicking creature from very early on, and while we dozed off together as he finished feeding, he'd often wake me 3 minutes later with a healthy kick in the stomach. With the co-sleeper, I hear him smacking his lips and rooting while we're both half asleep, then scoot him over to my side, latch him on, doze for 15 minutes, and when he's firmly asleep again, I scoot him back to his cot, pull the duvet around my ears, and roll over. Best of both worlds, IME. [hgrin]

I was going to ask about your other DC - if s/he's in school, that's probably a lot easier than if s/he's toddling, but do be ready for clusterfeeding evenings, and think about how you'll get your older one fed and bathed and put to bed if you've also got a baby attached. Might be worth pondering if it's just you. I can BF in a ring sling, which helped me no end.

I think it's totally do-able, btw, but people arent always given all the facts about how getting BF established takes a bit of work and etc, so I didn't want you to be shocked if you're a bit attached to the baby for the first month or so. It spaces out soon enough.
Sometimes now I whip my boob out for my grizzly baby and realise that actually, he's bored and wants to chat to me! I'm so used to it being hunger... he's grown up so much! Where did my teeny baby go? etc etc etc madloonymother nonsense...

Its very convenient compared to ff, but my 19week old still bf every 2hrs in day which with DS is nightmare as he is fed up of her being glued to me, wouldnt bf again!

Why not give it a go and see how you get on. I know 2 people who thought they would most probably formula feed try it and really enjoy it. I wanted to bfeed and found it harder going the first time round. It is intensive for the first 6-8 weeks and at these times bottle feeding may look the easier option, particularly if you see babies on a nice 3-4 hourly feeding pattern. But the point comes when it does become the easier option, and then it is a nice, quick, free affair!

DD (1st child) is 8.5 months and I am still breastfeeding. However, I struggled for the first 3 months.

• I had a c section and found that my milk supply took 1-2 days more than 'normal' to come in (post colostrum). Baby lost too much weight and hospital kept us in for 5 days to ensure she was gaining enough. They also made us mix feed her for a few weeks. Was able to finally get rid of mix feeding (the worst of both worlds IMO!!) after a couple of weeks and lots of support from a lactation consultant.

• Found it painful in the first couple of weeks, even though I was being told that the latch was good. That sensation went away fast... suggest you get yourself a tube of Lansinoh from Botts, for your hospital bag.

• I really wasn't prepared for feeds to last for an hour at each time! Eventually I just stopped fighting it and started renting DVD box sets, watching lots of on demand TV, etc...

• DD was / is still very refluxy so I didn't like to feed her in bed. I did not co-sleep either so the first few months were a bit hard - waking up and feeding her in the living room for hours many times at night.

• Finally, I was NEVER able to express more than 20-30 ml, despite doing everything I could to increase my milk supply. Was told by my lactation consultant that for some people, it just doesn't work... That gave me a shock because I then realised it was going to be only me looking after baby for the first few months, without help (feeding-wise) from DH.

But, suddenly, after about 12-15 weeks, it all became easy... It now takes DD about 10-15 mins at most to feed, we've bonded in an amazing way and it's so gratifying to see her putting on weight each week and knowing it's all down to me! It was well worth sticking it out!! 3 months sounds like a long time but it's really only a short period in baby's life. I would definitely recommend anyone to have a go at it - but to expect it to be very hard!!! and if it turns out being easy like for some of the other posters, then that'll just be a bonus!!

"I was advised by most people not to tell any HCVs about my wish to bf until the day i had baby as they can be quite full on and if i change my mind there can be a lot of guilt tripping etc."

It sounds like there are a lot of people around you with quite a lot invested in you not breastfeeding. You will find if you do bf (and I'm sure you will if you want to) that some people (not all!) take your decision to do something different to them rather personally, as though you're saying what they did is wrong. It's very true of feeding but then is also true of other stuff you do as a parent as well...

Thanks for all your replies. I know i have lots o questions but your posts are raising issues i didnt even know exisited. Does it take longer for your mik to come in if you have a section? As im booked in for an elcs due to having a high risk pregnancy.

What exactly is cluster feeding? And would any of you suggest things such as nipple shields etc or do the confuse babies?

I think most people are more worried aout the affect it will have on my health as i'll be doing it on my own plus having to look after ds and continue to do school runs etc from the minute i get out of hospital. Im pretty sure this wont be easy but i am prepared for the reality of that side of things in terms of being shattered and more than likely looking like the living dead.

Your posts are def helping me see it as something i am determined to do on terms on benefits out-weighing disadvantages. And if i really do struggle to cope then i may just have to stop and that will just have to be the waythe cookie crumbles unfortunately. But it would really take a lot for me to give in and switch to ff after bf.

LLL do a leaflet about BF if you've had a C section and they do loads of other leaflets too. I would go along to a meeting before your DC is born and get to know the group leader who will be able to give you loads of information that's relevant to you.

Here's the kellymom page about cluster feeding.

I used nipple shields under guidance from the bf counsellor from 17 days as the incorrect latch had caused my nipples to bleed. The shields helped with the pain and helped correct the latch (although we had to relearn a little bit once we dispensed with them).

Don't assume you will need shields though - it was a last resort attempt for me and, thankfully, it worked. I also used a dummy and a routine from early on (but gave additional feeds during growth spurts as needed).

DS didn't really seem to want to cluster-feed in the evening but I have friends whose babies wanted to feed constantly between 5 and 10 p.m. but then seemed to sleep through from early on.

Thanks for the help and advice, read the link on cluster-feeds dont know if its scared me completely yet or just made me more prepared.

My ds is in bed for 8 weekdays so im hoping this helps me but i also dont want him to lose out on quality time with me after school. Im really worried about the balancing act of 2 dcs especially with such a large age gap. How does everyone else manage?