Making up formula - would this work?

[breatheslowly]

We currently used ready made cartons of milk for DD.

Would it be possible to use a combination of cooled boiled water and freshly boiled water to make 70 degrees C wather to add powder to and then add more cooled boiled water to make the right volume and cool down to drinking temperature? Will powder shake up into less water than it is meant for and then get diluted or doesn't this work?

I know how you are meant to make formula, but it seems completely impractical given the 5 minutes notice (if that) I get from DD that she needs food. I also do wonder whether the guidelines are designed to be impractical to deter people from FF, but that is probably another thread.

If your DD feeds on a 2-3 hourlyish schedule you should be alright making formula up as recommended. Once a bottle has been made up you have 2 hours to use it so if you start making a feed up directly after she finishes one you would be ok.

I'm assuming 5 mins to boil kettle + 30 mins to cool water down + 5 mins to make up bottle + 10 mins cooling time (running under cold tap/in ice water) = new feed within 50 mins of last feed

The NHS guidelines on how to make up feeds are here

Oops missed a bit. Meant to say

I'm assuming 5 mins to boil kettle + 30 mins to cool water down + 5 mins to make up bottle + 10 mins cooling time (running under cold tap/in ice water) = new feed within 50 mins of last feed + 2 hours to finish new feed. Would that be workable?

She varies from 2 hours to 4 hours and also has one in the middle of the night. We might just stick to cartons until she has more of a routine.

Hmmm. I always boiled the water, cooled it down to drinking temp and then kept in a thermos flask. Then I added it to bottle with some powder; instant feed! DS1 seemed fine with that.

IF your DD is still newborn (

The water needs to be hot to kill the bacteria.

Once the bottle is made up, it's good for an hour, so can you make them up fresh and hope DD will want it within the hour?

It might be easier to start to impose a routine...

I have always kept wee bottles with 4oz of cooled boiled water in fridge. Make up bottles like so...
Boil kettle and make up to 4ozwith boiling water.
Add a splash from cooled bottle to reduce heat a bit.
Add 8oz milk powder and mix.
Add rest of cooled water.

Sounds a faff but used to it now. If going out take cartons or cooling bottle, thermos and powder.

I also keep cool boiled water in the fridge.

I boil the kettle add half the amount of boiling water, add a tiny bit of cool water, add the powder (so the powder mixes with water at around 70c) and shake, and then add the rest of the cooled water.

The important bit is that the powder is mixed with water around 70c.

Otherwise recommend these -
www.amazon.co.uk/Vacuvin-Rapid-Ice-Mini-Cooler/dp/B0001MEKAS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1287947404&sr=8-3

Cools the bottle down to drinking temp v quickly, and great for transporting bottles that are made up around as long as you know you can get hot water when out.

Otherwise made up in advance cool quickly and then warm up when needed.

Suzi, that is the wrong way to make up formula, and it is irrelevant whether "you ds was ok"....my grandad was smoking woodbines at 12, and he's ok, I wouldn't recommend it though.

The guidelines aren't there to deter people from ff, they are there to stop small babies getting seriously I'll, or actually dying from the bacteria that is found in powdered formula, that is only destroyed by water hotter than 70deg.

The best way to make it up so that it's ready almost instantly is hairtwiddler suggested.

Suzi - of course most babies will be fine making up formula with warmish water, but the powder is not sterile (says this on pack)and there have been cases of babies being seriously ill when the milk is made up that way.

My DS2 was BF until 6 months and now is combination fed, I don't think its such a problem now to make up feeds the way you suggest given that he is older, his food is not sterile, he is picking things from the floor, and he'd drink it quickly so any bacteria wouldn't have time to multipy etc etc.

But the risk is real and for a newborn its not a risk worth taking. The OP is asking about the correct way to make formula. What you have described isn't.

i used cooled bottled water and topped up with boiling either from kettle or flask if out.....dd was never ill and it worked for me!

"I also do wonder whether the guidelines are designed to be impractical to deter people from FF."

No they are not. They are there because the World Health Organisation issued guidelines because formula powder is not sterile.

It can contain very harmful bacteria and babies have sadly died and been seriously ill because of it.

Now, the risk is small and it is higher for newborns and especially for premature babies.

As other posters have said the 70 degrees water will kill the bacteria.

WHO have done experiments showing that using water at 70 degrees and then rapidly cooling and storing is safer than using colder water.

No one has done experiments with a smaller volume of warm water being added to cooler water. (I wish they would).

The problem with hairtwiddler's method above is that it is not recommended to use boiling/near boiling water as it can destroy nutrients.

There are alternatives - using water in a thermos which is 70 degrees or safely making in advance.

Have a look here and here.

It sounds like I want to do what hairtwiddler/MumNWLondon do which is effectively to make 70 degree water with boiling and cooled boiled water and use this to kill the bacteria before diluting with more cooled boiled water, so it sounds like this will work for me and WHO.

These are guidelines from WHO www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/micro/pif2007/en/index.html

I actually prepared feeds in advance making 6 bottles at a time, cooling them and then putting them in the fridge. Guidelines say obviously its best to make fresh but if you dont want to be spending all day sterilizing, boiling the kettle and making feeds up with baby screaming for their milk try this :-)

I think what suzi was getting at is yes in ideal world you do everything to a t but sometimes you have to do what works for you and baby so lets not have a go for her choice of how she fed HER baby :-)

Our midwife said it was ok to make a few feeds in advance (boil fresh water - not previously boiled water - then wait 20 mins before putting in the bottle and adding powder) and then store these in the fridge. However, you must make sure that you use freshly boiled water as above and that you store them in the coldest part of the fridge (bottom at the back, never the door) and ensure they are used within 24 hours. Remember to wash your hands and that the fridge and preparation space must be kept really clean too. We make a day batch and a night batch so we are always sure they are used within a few hours. Also, once a bottle has been warmed and/or offered, it must be used within an hour and never reheated. This seems to work for us.

I worried that this ran counter to the instructions on the pack but my sister who works at a home/assessment centre for very vulnerable young mums said that they give this advice and they wouldn't do so unless it was ok.

I know that this is unofficial advice so speak to your health visitor if you have concerns.

The guidelines say to boil the kettle & leave for 30 mins to get a temperature of 70 degrees. Unless you use a thermometer its pretty difficult to do that. I do it at home with a stainless steel kettle and need to cool the milk. Went away & did the same with a plastic kettle. The milk didn't even need cooling!

The guidelines are just that. It is evidence based advice provided by the government. The practicalities don't come into it as its not about that, just how best to not make your child ill. I don't follow them to the letter but in answer to the original question, yes you can use cool boiled and boiled water. It will dissolve properly if you don't use the correct amount. I do that sometimes but just be aware that adding the powder can change the volume so I have a spare empty bottle to measure the water I need to add.