11 Week old lost weight

[asphyxia]

Since DD was born we have had problems with her weight. She was 4.25kg at birth and had lost 13% at day 9. We ended up back in hospital for 5 days and by the time we were dischaged we were topping up with 40ml ff after each bf. I worked really hard to cut down on the ff, and when she regained her birth weight at 8.5 weeks, I cut out the last daytime ff and am now managing to express enough for a top up so she has whatever i can get (I try for 90ml) before bedtime. While I was cutting down the ff she was gaining weight slowly but steadily and now that she's lost weight again I just don't know where to go from here. I've seen a bfc, peer supporter, and go to bf support group every week and everyone seems happy with her latch. I'm taking fenugreek and pumping the other side while feeding to increase my supply. I really need some help to increse her weight gain. Sorry for crappy typing - I'm on my phone. Thanks for reading.

Hi there,

I keenly remember how worried my own DD's weight gain used to make me so I sympathise. I'm not an expert and can't say if there are any underlying problems but just some quick questions: is your baby weeing and pooing, looks healthy, and seeming reasonably contented for periods during the day? Would you say she was happy and thriving if you didn't know her weight? If so, she's probably Absolutely Fine and you're doing a great job, even though you are naturally worried about weight gain.

Has she had a cold or anything recently? Sometimes my children have dropped a bit of weight because of that, which is probably normal.

Personally I think the whole weighing business can be a terribly stressful thing in itself. I ended up giving up bf with my first over it all (though I was supplementing) and when I switched to all formula...she still didn't gain weight any faster! Always below the average gain every week, she was just a slender baby. She is now a happy, healthy, and still very slender 7 year old! With my second baby, I simply refused to weigh him lol (though I let the HV do it occasionally and record it without telling me) and trusted my instincts, going by the above questions. I was MUCH happier.

Best of luck with it.

Hi and thanks for the replies. DD has at least 6 heavy wet nappies a day and poos every 2 or 3 days but then she had 2 yesterday. She has always be happy, active, and alert and has at least 2 daytime naps of 2-3 hours. If she wasn't being weighed everyone would think she was a perfectly healthy little baby. I'm not really sure what to say about feeding patterns. I just tend to put her to the breast as much as I can during the day which is at least every 2 hours so if she wants it she will take it and if she doesn't thats fine. She usually has at least 2 sides, sometimes more. At night she will sleep at least 5 hours after her bottle feed. It seems that no matter what time she has the bottle between 11pm and 2am she will sleep through til 6ish. Should I be waking her up for a night feed? Neither of us have had any ill health. Having said all this, she has fed on and off all night last night. Was too tired to look at the clock but she was up at least 3 times while it was still dark. Do babies often have a bad weight gain week before a growth spurt? Should I weigh her again on Tuesday?

Transient weight loss in an otherwise healthy baby is either the result of a short illness or an error on the scales or in the recording of the weight.

However with the history you describe it's understandable you're concerned. How much was the loss?

If the only 'symptom' is this single, recorded apparent weight loss, then maybe discuss with HV whether to weigh again next week (too frequent weighing is not usually helpful).

To clarify - obviously you'd add 'baby would benefit from more feeding' to that list of possible reasons for weight loss....and if it is that, you and your baby seem to be addressing it well!

Hi tiktok - thanks for coming to help.
Here's a more detailed weight history. All these weights baby has been naked except for pavlik harness.

28/9 at baby clinic - 4.20kg
04/10 at bf group - 4.40kg
11/10 at GP surgery - 4.44kg
21/10 at bf group - 4.34kg

Most of my concern comes from the 60g loss from 04/10 to 21/10 because those weights were on the same scales and those scales were calibrated about 2 months ago. If I get her weighed again on tuesday it will be at baby clinic, or I can weigh her again on thursday at bf group (or even monday on those same scales)

asphyxia - yes, your baby's been growing more slowly than many babies, and yes, that is a drop...but given she appears healthy and well, this is a mystery! The drop of 60g is small and in a thriving baby, does not constitute something that needs 'fixing' immediately.

I think it makes sense to keep a watchful eye on her weight.

On reflection, if you were speaking to me in RL, I'd ask you to think about maximising her opportunity to take milk in direct, day and night, and I'd want to know what that long sleep after the bottle feed meant in terms of breastmilk production stimulation....if that means hours with no direct bf, and it certainly means the five hours she sleeps, then that may be too long, really. It would be fine if there was a good weight gain, but a 5 hour sleep is quite a lot for a smallish 11 week old. Co-sleeping (safely) might be needed to ensure she got what she needed.

Hope this helps.

Thanks again for your help tiktok. I think I will weigh her every week or 2 on the same scales so that I can get a really good idea of what her weight is doing.

As far as my milk production goes, I'm always very full when she wakes in the morning but I do worry about her not really having a night feed having a detrimental effect on my supply. Since my DH is really not keen on letting us co-sleep, I will try waking her 3 hours since last feeding but if that doesn't work, I may have to convince him to let us co-sleep.

Had a really bad night (or a few bad nights)

Gave DD her last bottle on monday and now she is feeding all night. The most I have got her to sleep in the moses basket is just under an hour. Weighed her yesterday and she was 4.38kg. Keep remembering a paed telling me if her weight gain didn't increase they would tube feed her because otherwise she might end up with poor brain growth or something like that.

DH has suggested giving her ff at bedtime again. Don't know what to do

Bumping for help - not looking forward to tonight

Hi, asphyxia.

It is good your baby is feeding a lot at night. This means she is taking in more milk. Can you work out ways of safe co-sleeping so she can feed with the least disturbance to you?

She has gained - though I agree the gain is small....what did the HV say? Weekly weighings can be misleading.

Formula may or may not address this weight issue (she was gaining slowly and had an apparent weight loss with formula, so it's not a guaranteed solution...). It seems to me you need to have a good discussion with someone knowledgable who understands and supports your wish to breastfeed (and who doesn't make scary comments about brain growth - how ridiculous. Brain effects are seen in babies who have been allowed to - literally - starve in infancy, not in babies whose growth has been a bit slow).

Is there someone you trust who would help you with this?

I have mainly been talking all this over with the leader of the bf group I go to. She is an ex-mw and trained with LLL and it's her scales I have been using. Her advice was to ditch all bottles and do all feeding directly from the breast. It was on Monday she gave me this advice and unfortunatley the group was so busy on Thursday I didn't really get the chance to discuss things with her further. I won't see her again until Thursday now and I know that will be a busy day too. I have tried to contact our HV but she's not available til Monday. Now I just feel a bit stranded with the weekend coming up.

I really appreciate your advice tiktok, and if you think giving formula is neither here nor there I'm inclined to just carry on as we are taking it one night at a time. I think my plan for the weekend will be to have DD skin-to-skin as much as poss, up the dosage of fenugreek and try to get a medela swing from ebay. I still worry that I'm harming her by being so stubborn and determined to breastfeed.

asphyxia - I understand how difficult this is for you :( It's a shame it's the weekend - no wonder you feel stranded.

I don't think it's right for you to follow what I say - I don't know you, haven't seen your baby. However, the group leader has seen you, and it would seem fine for you to continue doing what you and she have agreed on for a week or so at any rate - your baby is healthy and in no danger, from what you say, and she is gaining weight. There is no urgency to do anything other than what you have been doing, is there? I don't see any evidence you are harming her at all.

You can speak to your HV on Monday, and I think that will help you touch base with someone who can give you some confidence, perhaps.

That sounds like a good plan asphyxia.

Would breast compressions help too? (Dr Jack Newman has some video clips of these you can google)

Personally I think it's only by being determined to breastfeed that you'll get through this. Apart from the weight issue, your baby seems healthy, yes?

Hope you get a relaxing, stress free weekend.

Thanks for the replies. Although I really do respect the bf leaders advice, she is very anti-ff. She could not see why I was gradually cutting out the ff (as per an article on kellymom) and didn't just go from 40ml per feed to nothing cold turkey. My DH suggesting she has a 60ml bottle tonight is probably more to do with my wellbeing than DD's weight (he caught me in tears over all this last night) but I'm really fed up of taking steps backward when I was so happy to be back to EBF. I must just keep in mind that all signs are good except for the numbers on the scales.

I did try breast compressions before but not sure how they are supposed to help so will read up on that.

See here for info about breast compressions.

Asphyxia - I'm sorry to hear you are still having a struggle with bfing (I lurked early on in your thread but tiktok had replied so felt redundant ).

A little reassurance on the weight loss front DD1 went from 4.30kg at 7w to 4.45kg at 9w to 4.54kg at 10w to 4.51kg at 12w due to reflux/low supply. She is now a massive (but slim) 4.9 y/o who wears 6-7 clothes and was bfed to 3.6y/o (she is also very intelligent- even if I do say so myself).

Are you taking 4x640mg fenugreek x3 a day (12 in all) I found that to be the optimum for my milk production (also meant I went from a DD to an F cup in 48hrs)

Breast compressions are for stimulating milk flow (it's a bit like manual expression whilst at the same time breast feeding) and to keep a tired/'lazy'/ineffective feeder interested in suckling. You hold the compression until the baby stops suckling and then move round to next position and start compression again (like a clockface IYSWIM?) and baby should suckle again.

You could also try manual expression after a feed (and collecting it to give once a day if you wanted to still do a top up). It probably wouldn't be much (

crikeybadger - Thanks for the link. Will give that a go on the non stop nightfeed.

TruthSweet - It's always good to hear that other mums have been through the same thing and that things will improve eventually. I'm taking 12x 610mg fenugreek daily but don't smell of it anymore so trying 16 today. I was worrying she might literally milk me dry overnight! Will give the manual expression a go tomorrow. Never thought of doing that. Had tried using my avent pump after a feed but it never produced anything. I would like to start expressing and give her an ebm top up before bed again because it had become part of her bedtime routine as well as her little quiet time with daddy which I feel bad for taking away from him.

Forgot to ask for opinions on switch nursing and herbal teas for milk supply too.

Switch nursing sounds like it could do some good if your dd is a little sleepy at some feeds.

You could try eating oats (asda's raisin & oatmeal bakery cookies are good but bog standard porridge should have the same effect [if any effect is to be had]). Also drink to thirst NOT a prescribed 3/4/28765 litres of water a day (obv. if 3 litres is you drinking to thirst then that's fine) as overloading your system with water can decrease supply. You want to not feel thirsty and your urine to be pale. I know a lot of people think more water in more milk out but it's not really the case (except in cases of extreme dehydration).

TBH it's not really the amount of milk extracted but the amount of stimulation o even if your pomp got nothing after a feed it was still worth while. Hand expression might just yield a little bit but the stimulation it will provide should help.

How many times a day is either baby on the breast or expressing happening?

She is feeding at least 6 times during the day but I will offer the breast all the time whether she seems hungry or not - everytime she wakes, has a nappy change or gets bored. I was expressing off the other side for about 10 mins at the start of every feed, but haven't done any the past few days. I've just managed to get a medela swing electric pump from ebay so will hopefully that will help get the regular expressing going again. Have been eating porridge for breakfast daily (have a carrier bag of oats so simple sachets - I might have a problem!) and always have a drink of squash handy. We're just doing some skin-to-skin but now I'm coming down with a cold - It's really not our week [hsad]. For switch nursing, how often should you change sides?

Dr Sears (famed US Paed) has some advice about switch nursing here and also other ways to increase supply.

TBH 6 times a day at 11 weeks doesn't sound quite enough when you have supply issues and baby isn't packing the weight on. It is difficult if you seem to spend the whole day with your boob out trying to get baby interested (BTDT ) and baby still won't feed more often. Lots of skin to skin will help . The feeds don't have to be big ones even a few more mls an hour can be helpful in stimulate a baby's appetite.

With DD3 who went from 91st%ile to 2nd%ile (due to bronchiolitis x4 between 2-6 m/o) I was aiming to feed at least once per hour during the day time (i.e a feed sometime between 1 & 2, a feed sometime between 2 & 3, etc) though we didn't always manage it and unrestricted feeds at night.

in stimulate??? in stimulating.....

Thanks for the feeding every hour suggestion - definatley going to do that. Just off to read that link now.

Fantastic link. After reading that article, I have browsed the breastfeeding section and came across this:

"weight gain is measured from baby's lowest weight, not the birth weight"

I've never looked at it like this. I've been getting stressed thinking that DD is only 160g over her birth weight when looking at things the other way, she is 700g past her lowest weight. (1lb 9oz in old money) That little gem has made me feel 100 times better.