How can you tell if breastfeeding is established enough to try a bottle of ebm?

[wem]

DD1 never took a bottle and I wonder whether we missed the window when it would have been possible because I didn't want to mess up breastfeeding. I would like DD2 to have a bottle occasionally, so don't want to miss the chance this time, but again am anxious not to risk her rejecting breastfeeding in favour of bottles. She's not quite 3 weeks old, is 6 weeks the general guideline? What does 'established' actually mean?

6 weeks is the general guideline but I started expressing before that and probably gave a bottle at around 4 weeks-ish.

I have always taken 'established' to mean that your milk is in, that the baby is latching on well and feeding well. That your supply is relatively settled - so any engorgement has eased.

HTH

I gave both of mine a bottle by 6 weeks. DD1 loved it from the off, DD2 preferred her milk straight from the source and would only take a bottle from her daddy. I used the slowest teat and wasn't religious about giving one every day. With DD1 if I worried about her preferring the bottle I would just revert to the breast for a few days. She took to bottles easily so I wasn't particularly worried that she would refuse one down the line.

Re "established" by about 5/6 weeks the babies were latching fine, I could pump without difficulty, wasn't sore, no weight issues etc.

Watching as I am keen to use a bottle soon too.

Thanks, DD2 is feeding well, and engorgement has mostly settled down, apart from the other day when I forgot to feed on my left side a few feeds in a row, that got a bit uncomfortable again! I think I'll start expressing now and try a bottle at 4 weeks.

In the 1st 6-8 weeks of breastfeeding the cells which produce the milk within the breast are made. They are made by regular, on demand feeding. Interfering with this process, by giving a bottle, and therefore missing a feeding 'slot' can be detrimental to how many milk making cells you will produce which could mean you won't reach your full milk production potential. After 6-8 weeks the cells that you are going to make will have been made so a bottle after this time won't affect your ability to produce lots of lovely breastmilk.

HTH

Mine had a bottle at 3 days because my milk hadn't yet come through and I managed to breastfeed for 4 months.

That's interesting 3WiseMumsies, is that the case even if the feeding slot is being replaced with expressing, rather than directly substituting formula for breastmilk?

I remember being told to wait til 6 weeks with DD1, then she was poorly so decided to wait, then at 8 weeks was told by a HV 'Ooh, you don't want to leave it too late!'. It felt like there had been this tiny window that we missed, but maybe she would never have taken a bottle.

If you express you are still stimulating the breasts to make more cells. If the feed is replaced with formula, baby doesn't feed at the breast and no expressing happens then the breast isn't told to make more milk/cells.

So the phrase "once feeding is established" means once your body has made all the milk producing cells it's going to and also once you've both(you and baby) got yourselves used to breastfeeding and feel confident with it.

Of course in reality it's those first 6-8 weeks that are the hardest, when you are the most tired, when you need the most help and when someone else giving a bottle(of either EBM or formula) would be the most helpful.

So if you are going to offer a bottle before 6-8 weeks don't do it too often and try to express to stimulate more cell production.

Putting in the groundwork early on will mean that the mother has the capability to feed for as long as she wants to without supply issues.

Hm, yes, I should say that mine were both on bottles of ebm because I didn't want to start replacing feeds with formula until further down the line (just wanted to make sure they'd take a bottle).

Thanks, I'd only be giving bottles of ebm, so it sounds like it's ok to do that before 6 weeks as the expressing will keep up the demand side of things.

I started DD with 1 bottle of EBM a day at 4 weeks and it didn't impact on my supply or cause nipple confusion for her.

As a voice of doom I do have to report that she suddenly took against them at 7 weeks and hasn't taken a bottle since even with us trying various approaches every day. At almost 10 weeks she is now just uses the teat as a chew toy!!!

So long as the bottles are few i.e not every feed or every other feed, you are expressing if not feeding directly and are putting the baby to the breast often(expressing is nowhere near as efficient as the baby at suckling and a pump will not stimulate many lovey dovey oxytocin hormones in you no matter how much you might like it's design/value/usability) then a few bottles of EBM will not have a detrimental effect on your supply.

My advice would be get her on the bottle early and often. We introduced DD to a bottle of EBM at two weeks old and since then she's had one bottle a day (she's now 12 weeks). But she still prefers the breast and sometimes refuses the bottle, which means leaving her can be stressful knowing she's not that happy with the bottle.

Didn't affect supply in the slightest.

I didn't get dd2 on the bottle successfully until about 17 weeks and I had to be out of the house. I had a work meeting today and she took the bottle again with no difficulty 4 weeks from the last time. This was the same basically as dd1. Won't countenance bottle if breast available (including if I'm hiding upstairs).

I offered to each at around 5-6 weeks and all three accepted it.... offered around one bottle a week on average generally if I was out, but if a week had gone by with no bottle then would do one anyway.

I would be very wary of MamaMary's advice though as SOME babies like my DS1 prefered the bottle even with a slow flow teat - he had one a week until around 16 weeks when we did one each night (slow flow teat), and within a week or so he was refusing the breast.

DS2 on the other hand is now 26 weeks, I am back at work, he has 2 bottles of formula in the day which he drinks nicely and is very happy to feed from me when I get home (and in the morning).

OP: I think 3 weeks is still a bit little if no need to give bottles, but if you do have a need (ie you need to leave her with someone) then why not try. IMO and IME daily bottles much more risky with breast refusal than just v occasional bottles.