11wk mixed fed baby - bright ideas for bedtime niggles?

[cbmum]

DD1 has just been 2, DD2 is 11 weeks old and mixed fed. She has formula mid morning, mid afternoon, a top up at bedtime after I've fed her as my supply is usually low at this time of day, and a bottle late evening whenever she wakes which is any time between 10.30 and midnight. The 3am, 7am and lunchtime feeds are EBF.

Bedtime has been a challenge from the start as DD1 was not a good sleeper but just before DD2 arrived she started to sleep fairly reliably through the night. Hence I didn't want to muck up her bedtime routine and risk ruining such great progress. To make matters more complicated, DH commutes to work and is not back until 7.15pm which is just in time for him to take over DD1 and read her a bedtime story and tuck her in.

DD2 usually has a feed from me about 5.30ish, then more the other side of her bath whilst I'm reading stories to DD1 before DH arrives. I then take DD2 to bed and continue to feed her then offer a top up. Usually she then goes to sleep.

My question is this. For the past few nights she has taken a bit from her bottle but not nearly as much as she has been doing. When I put her down to sleep she doesn't settle. After a few nights it has become clear that she wants more boob. I'm not sure that this is necessarily because there is more in it for her and maybe it's more of a settling thing.

I wondered whether I would be better to try and boost my supply for this time of night by investing in fenugreek etc. But, I'm always so stressed at bathtime because most nights I'm doing it all by myself I suspect this is the biggest impact on my supply.

Tonight it took from 5.30 until 8.15 until DD2 conked out during which she had numerous short feeds from me, a bit from her usual bottle. Some of the times she fed from me she was squirming about and being very squiggly which was not very comfortable for me. Is this because she wanted to look around and be nosey or because she was frustrated at the lack of supply?

Sorry for the long ramble. It's way past my bedtime but I was hoping someone out there may have some bright ideas for me to read tomorrow morning.

Thanks!

Just wondering why you don't just breastfeed her ? If you allow her to feed from you fully at the times on the boob, there should be no reason to top her up & this extra feeding will increase your supply within a couple of days.

When my DD was that age she used to cluster feed on & off like that too. I would disagree with your comment - she obviously does feel it's necessary !

I would agree. It sounds like she's being a bright wee thing and realising that she needs to increase your milk supply at that time of night rather than looking for more from the bottle. The squiggling and fussing may well be down to low supply or slower flow, but it's really common. My DD is 16 weeks and is being a complete pain tonight with the same thing! Two aborted attempts already at getting her to bed, and I'm gearing myself up for round three!

My totally unscientific suggestion as a lay person would be to go with the fussy evening feeding and don't top up. That might make her wake earlier for her late evening bottle feed (assuming you want to continue that being a bottle?). If she has that earlier she might be hungrier during the night, thereby feeding more in the night for a few days, thereby increasing your supply? Otherwise you risk starting the slippery slope of her satisfying her increased appetite with more top ups rather than increasing your own supply. HTH.

Thanks for the comments. loving the sun the reason DD2 is mixed fed is mainly because I had such a terrible time feeding DD1 and I had to put her onto formula at 10 week as she failed to gain weight and was falling off the charts.

I didn't want the stress this time and mix feeding DD2 took some of the pressure off of fully feeding her myself. Plus, it means that someone else can do some of the feeds to give me a break and allow me time to do activities like swimming with DD1.

I'm going to try and not offer her a top up tonight at bedtime and see how we go.

On the plus side, last night after all the messing around she woke only once for food...

cbmum, glad things were better last night, must have been a relief. Also sounds like her feeding from you is going well too, which is great.

My DD1 was very low on the charts, and stayed pretty much that way til she was about 2 I think. She's now 7 & in age 10 clothes & a great build. DD - soley bf - well, I don't think she ever got on the centiles, but was ( & still is) a lovely looking baby

lovingthesun - silly question time....

DD2 has basically fed from 5.30 to 8.15 tonight with a small break of some 30 minutes for me to do both bathtime. After a very depressing 1hr15min stint with no let up I caved an offered her a bottle. She only took 30 ml but still wasn't happy. 15 minutes more boob and she's now asleep. I presume all of this boob time with not much let down is going to start sending the message to generate more milk?

cbmum, I am much in the same position. DD1 is just over two, DD2 is 8 weeks. I am mix feeding, too and find that it helps when my supply is low - I give her a bottle at 10 AM, another at 5.30 PM, and then a top up at 10 PM.
Needless to say, the time between 5 and 7 is a nightmare - two girls to settle, dinner to prepare, husband comes home at 7 tired and hungry... My solution so far has been to hire a lovely girl who comes from 5 to 6.30 and helps me with a bit of everything, but mainly looks after DD2 as I deal with her big sister and give her undivided attention, which she needs at that time. All was going well, but lately DD2 doesn't seem to settle easily after 7.30 - sometimes until 10ish!

This week I found that it is important that I don't just plonk her on her little chair, or on her play mat - she needs to be in her basket, where she sleeps at night, by 8 at the latest. Then I feed her if she cries but most often a dummy does the job, or turning her on her tummy (she loves that and falls asleep easily in that position - then when she is asleep I gently turn her over). Then she is happy to drink her breast + bottle at 10ish and she lasts till 2.30; she generally wakes up again at 5ish but I just give her a dummy, and she falls asleep for another hour. This is the best case scanario - there are other times when nothing seems to settle her and then I just think: it will not last forever...

Good luck!

Oh, and sometimes she just wants a quick suck from breast - not for the milk, just for the comfort I think, and falls asleep instantly, as if just looking at it was enough!

pinguina - glad to know it's not just me. I'm loving your solution, if only we could afford the same! As an added complication tonight as it was raining DH waited at the station on getting back from London rather than get soaked cycling home. End result - he walked through the door at 8pm rather than 7.15 to a very tired toddler who had refused to go to sleep without seeing Daddy. Just what I needed

As an aside I've purchased some fenugreek today to see if that helps with supply issues. No idea if it will but I figured try it for a week and see.

cbmum - to answer your not silly question. Yes sucking on a pretty much empty boob should most certainly signal your breasts to make more milk.

When I mixed fed it wasn't with quite so much formula, so I've no real experience of this scenario. I do wonder though, if you're struggling with your supply, whether you need to look at making the late evening feed breast and not bottle? A total pain I know. But then perhaps others have managed exactly the regime you're using and will tell me I'm wrong.

gaelisheep, I wondered that too. It's just a case of trial and error I guess. IF only little people came with a manual it'd be so much easier!

I shuld try it for a few days if I were you. You're exactly at the stage I was when I ran up against supply issues. I was giving bottles at night for various reasons and at about this age DD started waking for a second feed after being happy on one for some time. If I'd gone with this it would really have been the beginning of the end as far as b/f went, so I bit the bullet and ditched the bottles altogether.

You're much braver than me, doing your b/f at night anyway, so I doubt it's as serious for you, but definitely make sure you increase the breast feeds and not the formula if you want to continue mixing.

sorry, just picked this up.

yes would definetly agree that, with all her sucking, your milk supply is going to up.

I sympathise with the situation, I really do. I'm trying to think back. I know that DD2 didn't ever have a bottle, but i also think my DH was around to help out with DD1..

Could you do tea a bit earlier, say 4:30, then have bathtime about 5:30 - 6pm, then storytime. DD2 was in bed by 7pm, so DD1 had hher own storytime with DH.

Looking back, I've a feeling I was using Gina Ford's timings then & I remember DD2 was feeding every 2 hours, but I'm sure she was going through the night.

Tired now, so probably not making sense..will have a think & see what I can remember !

So tonight was better I think but a bit of perspective would be good. DD2 fed pretty much on and off from 5.30 til 8.20 tonight, with a break of about 30 minutes from 7pm as she had fallen asleep. (She had been awake since 4pm and had hadn't slept much during the day - unusually for her).

By 8.20 I'd had enough and was at the end of my tolerance levels for feeding her myself (I realise this sounds bad but it's true) so with no sign of her looking sleepy I reached for the formula. In the run up to this she had been feeding from me but not with the gulping sounds that suggest a proper feed. More a few good sucks then a lot of tongue flicking going on. I suppose the positive out of this is that on taking probably no more than 20ml of formula she has finally gone to sleep and I can now cook my tea.

She has also take much less formula today than she has in the past as I offered her 2 goes at lunch as she seemed interested. I'm sure this is why she only had half of what she would normally take mid afternoon.

I don't want to stop the mix feeding but I may be tempted if things do improve to swap the 4pm feed for an expressed feed rather than formula if this proves practicable. A breast feed at this time of day doesn't work as I need to be walking across town to collect DD2 from nursery days a week so I need the flexibility of a fast bottle feed at this time.

I've no idea if the fenugreek is having an impact but I figure it can't hurt.

Sounds like your DD might be doing the opposite of what the textbooks say, and rejecting formula for you! Clever girl! Mixed feeding can be a real faff can't it? I hope you find a solution that works for you.

How much fenugreek are you taking? The dosage usually needs to be more than the bottle suggests. Up the dosage you take steadily, one tablet at a time until your sweat and breath smell like the fenugreek. For me it was 3 tablets, 4 times a day.

Thanks for the fenugreek tip. I'd heard the same before so I've only taken 2 per day for the first few days. I'm going to up it to 3 tablets from tomorrow.

So far today again DD2 has taken less formula in the day than she has before so is clearly having more from me but I still have the same problems with the bedtime feed in that there is not enough milk for her. She is sucking but not getting anything for the last part of the feed. So, another top up feed required tonight. Only about 30 mls or so but I' hoping that after a week or so of this the formula top up may not be required.

Hi pinguina - not sure if this will help you or not but the fenugreek seems to have increased my supply over the past few days to such that the bedtime feed is one that no longer needs a top up. So far so good. At least it now means that each feed is either from me or bottle and not a bit of both.

Sorry for delay in responding - we went on holiday to Italy and just back. Lovely but we drove and it was a bit of a nightmare with the two girls - far, far too far away!
Trip seems to have messed up DD2's feeds - at night she wakes up every two hours.. so am not sure as to wether to increase formula or just hold on and wait until this moment passes..! Shall try the fenugreek anyway - thanks for the tip!

I had that phase a week or so ago so I sympathise. Fenugreek seems to have worked with us and last night DD2 slept from 7.45 to 1.45 then had a feed from me and slept again from 2.30 til 6.30 and only had 2 formula bottles the previous day. We are tending to have one good night, then one not so good night. I reckon it's a phase but I'm hopeful that the good nights will soon outweigh the bad.

I suspect the travelling has sent your little one's feeding a bit up the spout. Give it a week and if it's still no better reassess.

Another thing I've noticed with the fenugreek is that I had a day early this week when I forgot to take it. The bedtime feed immediately became one that I had to offer a top up and to do so for 48 hours until the fenugreek kicked back into have it's full effect. Weird but whilst it seems to work I'm going to keep taking it even if it does smell and taste horrid!