Biological nurturing and positioning still not right!

[Bumperlicious]

3 weeks in and still struggling with latch. Been to bfing group twice this week and still not getting it right. I've been a peer supporter myself so I know the theory but just can't put it into practice.

DD2 doesn't seem to be tilting her head back in order to latch on.

So just tried doing biological nurturing position which I thought was meant to be the magical cure, but it still wasn't right and was still painful! Why the fuck can't I get this right! I really want this to work. I know there is not much that can be done online, but not having much luck with professionals in person either so any advice would be welcome!

I'm afraid I can't help, but I sympathise. DS just won't do biological nurturing, and I was really hoping it would be the miracle way to get a good latch. Instead, it just hurts like hell and he screams at the breast :( I'm off to a group on Monday in the hope that someone can save my nipples help. I gave him a bottle of EBM this morning just to avoid the pain .

I've tried watching loads of videos, but unfortunately they don't teach DS, and I'm sure I'm doing everything possible (that I know of) to get him on properly.

It's so bloody difficult, isn't it?

I'm wondering about paying a private lactation consultant if it doesn't start getting better soon. Maybe there's someone local to you. List here I'm not sure how expensive they are, but I'm prepared to try anything!

Good luck, and lots of sympathy!

Thanks for the link. I don't think I need an LC. I've seen two bfing councellors (both of whom I know) plus my friend is training as a bfc. The thing is like you they can tell me hw to do it, but can't make me do it right, or make her do it right.

So pissed of and so of people who don't have problems. I just keep thinking why me? Why can't I do this right?

Bump

Depending on the shape and position of your nipples, and whether she has any head control yet (might not work if she has head control), maybe holding your baby to you, upright without holding her head, (although obv not so fast that she gets whiplash) might get her to put head back? I'm thinking about the way mother apes carry their babies clutched to their fronts- that sort of position?

Not sure I understand how you mean, do you mean laid back, like the biological nurturing position? Otherwise I'm not sure I have room to hold her upright like that.

Arrgh this is so frustrating!

How was the birth? Just this is a common problems with babies delivered by forceps or after a longish pushing stage. Some women find cranial osteopathy on baby helps the neck muscles and general jaw alignment, so baby latches more easily.

I assume you have tried rugby ball hold as that naturally tilts baby's head back and encourages a deep latch.

Also all the pics of biological nurturing I have seen, you need to be well propped up on a mound of cushions, so baby can be propped up on you.

I also assume you on are baby No.2. My main issues after my first was my boobs were droopier, I really needed to shape them for the baby and hold the shape for the fulll feed and not just the latch.

I think duchesse means like <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=imagecache6.allposters.com/LRG/38/3884/X5XJF00Z.jpg&imgrefurl=www.about-art-decor.com/posters/i6113764.html&usg=__FakM3i0-OQk7fR7UbfOuc6ER1y4=&h=300&w=400&sz=31&hl=nl&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=g4ynalVGG3Br0M:&tbnh=108&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgorilla%2Bbreastfeeding%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D592%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C38&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=193&vpy=315&dur=591&hovh=193&hovw=258&tx=120&ty=170&ei=BGi3TLT6HcTTjAekzvSeBg&oei=BGi3TLT6HcTTjAekzvSeBg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:19,s:0&biw=1280&bih=592" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this. It does look like it might be worth a try.

Keep strong Bumber, you will crack this.

Seen osteopath twice.

Just delatched her about 10 times now she is pissed off & not feeding properly. Both knackered.

Oh great, now dd1 woken up. Not sure how much longer I can do this. Why can't I make it work?

fermina- that is exactly what I meant, but I couldn't find a good picture online! I've done it with my babies, especially the last one, when she was struggling to feed (6 days in nicu meant we didn't get off to a very good start).

Duchesse, could you describe how you did it for me?

I was usually sitting up in bed (crash cs which meant I spent much of the first two weeks bed-based). Lie the baby on her back on the bed between your legs, then pick her up again face to face with you at roughly the height of your boob. My baby didn't have very good head control and her head lolled back, so her chin ended up in the right position of its own accord. Once she was latched on properly I could settle back onto the pillows into a more biological nurturing type position. I figured that mother apes aren't especially good at holding their infants' heads, so there had to be some biological advantage somewhere in how they hold their babies. I'm quite small breasted (32D now I'm feeding, usually a 32C) so that may make a difference.

Have the midwives checked your baby out for structural problems that might prevent a good latch? Is she pooing and weeing as she should?

Thanks duchesse, I'll give that a go, not sure my torso is long enough though! We've just been doing bio nurturing again but it still hurts on my left side.

Think we need to go to the osteo one more time. Mws haven't been particularly helpful. Half the people I have seen have said dd is to far over, the other half not far enough. Nipple isn't become cracked any more just mishappen & sore.

Last night was crap, was ready to give up. Don't understand why I can't get it but other people have no problems :(

Just been trying the bio nurturing position all morning (while watching endless peppa pig online with dd1) & dd2 just getting more & more frustrated & upset.

This is crap. Dh working till 7 today & I might shoot myself!

If the nipple that was cracked now isn't, that's progress! That must mean that she's getting the hang of it. My experience of breastfeeding 4 babies is that it is sore at first. Took me by surprise again this time, had a long gap and completely forgot that it does actually hurt at first even if you're doing it right. Shouldn't have cracks though, so glad they're healing up for you.

Buymp, can you ask your DH to come home? Or get a supportive friend to come round and sit with you and keep DD1 entertained? Once DD2 has worked out what to do, it'll be so much easier for you. Hang in there.

Thanks, dh has come home for lunch which has at least meant I could eat in peace. Dd1 is being surprisingly good thankfully, though I can't cope with her constant pawing at me!

I'm hoping it will just magically fall into place or I can't see a end to this. Thanks for the help.

Have they checked for tongue tie and whether she has a high palate in her mouth, as both those are less common reasons for baby 'crushing' your nipple as they feed and making it misshapen.

Also some babies clamp down as they feed to stem a fast flow of milk, and again this can make the nipple misshapen.

No-one professional checked but doesn't look like it. Have just made a final appointment with the cranial osteopath so he might be able to look.

Interesting about the fast flow as the bfc said that she seemed very cautious when latched on, just fluttering slightly as if expecting a fast flow.

I would really encourage you to see a lactation consultant. Solved all my problems in, ooh, about an hour. And they were pretty bad problems.

Lactation Consultants GB has a website listing contact details.

How much did they cost & how are they different from a bfc?

I seem to think she charged about £40 or so, it may have been a little bit more. She came by public transport too, so I paid her taxi from the local station.

I think they have much more extensive training than a breastfeeding counsellor, and to qualify have to sit exams.

She was really worth the money we paid. Saved my sanity.

No one local :(

Oh that's really crap. Sorry.

Is there one attached to your local hospital? Sometimes there is.

Or, you could always call a distant one up for a phone consultation. You never know, could be helpful.

How's it going Bumper? Hope things are improving as little one grows.

Thanks duchesse. We are still up and down. Still hurting a bit but not as much as it was. Will go to bfing group again on Tuesday.

Night feeds are really hard though. Taking an hour and a half to feed and settle sometimes.