Weaned 6mo waking every 3 hours for milk - help.

[CinnabarRed]

I'm not sure where to post this query; I'm going to copy it in the Sleep and Weaning topics as well.

Apologies in advance for the length of this query, but I want to include everything that might be relevant.

DS2 started getting very fussy about feeding when he was 9wo. At that point he was EBF, but DP was giving him a bottle of expressed breast milk every evening. I kept going with breastfeeding, and took DS to every BF clinic going, until DS was 15wo. At that point our lovely and very practical HV, concerned that DS was losing weight, suggested that the problem might be my supply (we'd tried every other solution the BF experts had) and that I should top him up with a bottle of EBM after each breast feed. Well, that was it for breastfeeding - as soon as DS realised that I could give him milk in a bottle just as well as DP could he rejected the breast all together.

From 15wo to 22wo we pottered on with bottles and DS put on weight as he should. Roughly 75% of his feeds were EBM and the rest were formula.

At 22wo he started rejecting bottles too and his weight started dropping again. My personal theory is that he simply doesn't like milk, but of course I can't be sure. Over the course of 10 days, my GP and HV recommended weaning him onto fruit and veg, then dairy (because of concerns that DS wasn't taking in milk) and then meat/fish (to get some protein into him).

DS took to weaning like a duck to water. He's now 25wo, on three meals per day and wolfing them all. Conversely, he now refuses to let a drop of milk pass his lips during daylight hours, although he will take sips of water from a sippee cup. A typical day would be:

• Breakfast at 7AM - fruit puree and single yoghurt
• Lunch at 11AM - large* bowl of veg based puree such as cauliflower, tomato and cheese; large bowl of fruit puree for pudding.
• Midafternoon at 2PM - the juice of half a freshly squeezed orange given by syringe(to help with constipation which I believe is caused by lack of fluid intake during the day).
• Dinner at 4PM - large bowl of meat based puree sich as chicken cassarole; single yoghurt for pudding.

(A large bowl being 6-8 ice cubes worth of puree, broadly equivalent to one jar of 1st stage weaning food.)

I offer DS milk midmorning and midafternoon but he yells at me and won't even put the teat in his mouth. He will take c.100 ml/3 fl oz of milk just before bed at 6:30PM.

So my problem is that although he was sleeping through he's now waking for milk at around 10PM, 2AM and 4:30AM. To be entirely fair to DS, when he wakes he downs a whole bottle of c.200 ml/7 fl oz, goes back down into his cot awake and self-settles back to sleep. Each night feed takes around 10 mins from start to finish.

DS seems to be thriving on this new routine, but I'm on my knees, and have DS1 (aged 2.10 years) to look after too).

Does anyone have any experience of similar issues, or indeed have any suggestions for how I can get more milk into DS2 during the day? I dread the thought of weeks more of this, and I'm going back to work in less than a month. What if he keeps up this routine until he's a year plus?

Thanks in advance.

Based on what you say he's drinking roughly 700ml of milk a day which is probably about right for his age, just he's having them at the wrong times.

My DS2 is also exactly 25 weeks - we just started weaning this week though and he's eating only 2 cubes and a couple of spoons of yoghurt for lunch and same for dinner (so a lot less solids), plus probably (hard to tell as some is from breast) same amount of milk as your DS2, at 7am (breast), 10am (5oz F) 2.30pm (5oz F) 6pm (breast), 10pm (4oz F + breast). I'm sure if I increased the solids quickly he'd cut back on the milk. Solids, esp fruit and veggies not very calorific so its not surprising he's waking up in the night.

I would guess that to get more milk into him in the same you'll have to cut back a bit on the solids. What would happen if you offered him milk immediately before each meal, and cut back the quantities of food he is having.

ie milk at 7am
breakfast at 7.30am -
milk at 11am
lunch at 11.30am
milk before orange juice mid afternoon at 3pm

Hi MumNWLondon, thanks for posting.

I agree entirely that he's getting the right amount of milk in any 24 hour period - just at the "wrong" times. Wrong for me, that is. It clearly suits him very nicely!

I've tried offering milk before meals, between meals, and even instead of meals, and he simply won't have it. He would rather go without than have milk during the day. (I'm ashamed to say that I tried this today - offered him milk instead of breakfast, and then kept offering him milk every half hour or so until about 1PM when I cracked and gave him lunch. By that time he was hysterical every time he saw the bottle but seemingly happy and content when I stopped trying to bottle feed him. That said, he did wolf his lunch when it came.)

My theory is that he really doesn't like milk, but still needs it. So he ends up tolerating drinking it at night when his body is too tired to resist any more. But I really hope I'm wrong, because it would imply that I'm in for months more of this.

My HV has tentatively mentioned special formula that's mega high in calories, on the grounds that he'd need fewer fl oz and hopefully fewer night feeds to get to his alloted calories per day. But I really don't want to give up on the EBM unless I really have to.

He's darn lucky I worship the ground he doesn't yet walk on!

Oh dear. My DS1 was similar with breastfeeding, was ok whilst I was EBF but as soon as I started with EBM and he realised milk could come from a bottle he bit me every time I offered the breast.

In that case perhaps try and increase the formula content of his food, eg porridge made with formula for breakfast, fish poached in formula for lunch? etc etc.

Presumably you've tried sippy cups and doidy cups?

Also adding butter to veggies can increase calorific content.

After reading your post though I'm going to keep my DS2 on 4 cubes a day for at least the next month as he's not terribly keen on bottles either, and will only drink when he's v hungry. He's sleeping through but I have been feeding him the hipp goodnight formula with added cereals at 11pm.

Good point re sippee cups - I had tried them but not for a while. I'll give it another go for day drinks. After all, even one milk feed during the day might make a difference to the nights. I will also try adding it to his purees in place of water, although when I added it to fruit purée a couple of weeks ago it put him off the fruit. But I think the taste would be better disguised in meat/fish/veg. Thanks for the ideas.

Since I last posted, DS2 has started refusing food as well as milk. Which scares me a bit because the pattern of loving nutrition and then going off it is exactly how he was with first breast feeding and then bottles.

I realise, on reflection, that he never makes signs of wanting nutrition, whether milk or solids, other than at night. Instead I simply offer nutrition and he takes it (on not, as the case may be).

When he doesn't want nutrition he makes it very, very clear by screaming at me. I think I may damage our bond if I keep trying to "force" milk or solids into him.

So my current plan is to go completely back to basics, be led by DS2's demands (assuming that he'll start to ask for food or milk eventually) and see what happens. I'm hoping it will sort of "re-set" our relationship with each other and his relationship with food.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts.