A few concerns about bf, looking for advice / reassurance

[RaisingMrC]

Hello,

I've been ebfing my 8 week old from birth (and doing so now, so this post may be a bit illiterate looking!)

I can't shake off the feeling I don't produce much milk - here's why:
-he seems to need to feed a huge amount, roughly 2 hourly including at night.
-he feeds for ages at a time and doesn't seem to want to get off the boob, though granted he does fall asleep and dawdle a lot !
-I have only been able to express an ounce at a time (in about half an hour then stop out of boredom)
-I've never suffered from leakage / rock hard boobs.

He is growing well, producing lots of wet nappies though sometimes does seem frustrated at the breast, comes off and on, claws, kicks legs.

I've had the latch looked at a few times and told its fine, am not in any pain.

What do people think - and will things change over time, while i want to continue with bf, i do get to the point - when he seems constantly hungry - where i wonder how much longer i can! Any views / advice / reassurance greatfully received!

I was the same with DD1 (5 hours drinking sessions weren't rare). I didn't get any advice except it is normal go on like you are . That's when I started introducing FF at 8 weeks.
I am just hoping that somebody will have some real advice to give you .
You are doing really well

Hi I have never suffered leakage and I thought the same as you and my baby is now 11 months and I still seem to wonder if I produce enough milk but he packs on the weight.

My baby at that age fed around every 2 hours and through the night. My baby fed for ages too.

It was only at around 4 months that my baby fed every 3 hours.

I never could express very much at all - the baby takes so much more.

I gave up on expressing.

I coped by having my phone, pc, books (not that I could ever read them), tv, dvd nearby so I could do something useful and feed.

It is such hard work but your little milk monster sounds like he is doing fine and is very happy.

I am sure bf is easier than having to make up bottles.

You sound like you are doing a wonderful job!

I got by, by being very determined and I remember thinking that around 6 months solids could be introduced to give me a bit of a break!

Hi, I'm in very much the same situation too (though my DD is only 3 weeks old). Thought I'd come on to make a post and ask for help/advice but as this one's already going....

The latest MW to come and weigh DD suggested that I should drastically up the rate of expressing - five or six times a day - to up the milk production. She said it should only take 3 or 4 days of doing this for me to see a difference. Like you however I only seem to get a small amount out at a time - 10 ml or so over 20 mins (10 each breast). Fingers crossed that it improves! I do get leaky boobs sometimes (sometimes a lot) but not really the rock had boobs any more, not since my milk first came in really.

But surely DD must be getting more out of me than this paltry amount? She produces plenty of wet & dirty nappies per day, and is putting on weight more or less in line with what the La Leche League newsletter says she should.

It seems, though, like she's constantly a bit hungry; when we give her the expressed milk she gobbles it down and then is more settled. At night things are better and she seems to get more out of me, I think, and first thing in the morning; but during the day and evening she seems to need to feel pretty constantly. The MW reckoned she should only really need to feed for approx 20 mins at a time at this age, have others also heard this and is it true? My life would be easier if so!

i had this with dd1 - i was sure i wasn't producing enough milk. but i was.

and i felt it again with dd2 but turned out she used to cry because my milk used to come so strongly so i think you never really know.

keep at it. unless he's really underweight i would carry on. sounds all normal.

also - how are you deciding what breast to offer? are you offering both at each feed?

Hi Comixminx - one suggestion would be to go to a BF clinic run by some switched on mws.

Even at 11 months my baby can feed 20 minutes each side!

Some babies are more efficient guzzlers than others.

There will be growth spurts as well.

It can depend when you express.

I was also advised to express to increase supply, I managed for a few days but I found it was easier just to set up for longer bf sessions.

I know plenty of other friends who could not express either.

Ofcourse if the baby is say feeding 20 mins each side then you could possibly take your baby off the breast if you need to do anything.

I would check my breasts and if they seemed a bit emptier - a bit like a flat balloon then it would be evidient to me that the baby had fed enough.

The best way to stimulate milk supply is for the baby to do it so let them feed as often as you can.

I never leaked, couldn't express more than a few drops either. Ds fed very efficiently though he would feed very very frequently and woke many times a night. He put on weight well though and plenty of dirty and wet nappies. I am still feeding him at 3 yo, as well as his brother so I must have enough milk!

Expressing is not an indication of how much milk you can produce so don't worry if you only get a small amount out.

All babies are different as well, my ds would feed only for 7 mins at a time, but obv he got enough from that. There is no 'right' set time. Can you listen out for gulping to see if they are actually still drinking or just comfort sucking? With ds2 when he comfort sucks I unlatch him so I can get on with other things. Luckily he is happy with a dummy, whereas his brother was not!

You are doing great.

Completely agree that length of time, etc is totally normal. Same with expressing - lots of peole get bugger all by expressing. I get a fair bit, but tbh, the baby is far more efficient and doesn't require scrubbing, so I just feed more frequently and that helps. Pump now gathering dust in cupboard.

Wrt frustration (his) that could be when he is tired or windy or just a bit impatient for the next let-down. They have numerous growth spurts in the early months and this mkaes them a bit fussy too.

Bagsy the best seat and the remote and get your oh to bring drinks, etc...

I ffed number 1 and am bfing number 2 and have to say that after the first few months, bfing is MILES EASIER especially at night!

Hi,

Each BF baby is slightly different but as a general rule in the early weeks they all feed roughly every couple of hours day and night, (my first was every 1.5hr for the first 4 months, second fed more during the day and slept for 6hr at night) BM is easily digested (perfect design) so the baby becomes hungry again quite quickly.

Growth spurts(increased demand for BM and irritability) happen at regular intervals roughly every two weeks at first then a big one at 4mo 6mo and 9mo which normally last a few days then things settle down again.

most lo enjoy being attached to the breast for comfort as well as feeding so it is up to you how you handle it. If you don't mind then just carry on doing what your lo wants then put him to bed (hope!) and grab a bite, have a wash etc.

the normal amount of pumped milk is 1/2 - 2 oz TOTAL from both breasts per session and it is not a good indicator of your supply as your LO is much more efficient at getting BM than any pump invented.

If your LO is producing plenty of wet/ soiled nappies, putting on weight an iscontent after a fed then you are doing fine.

Fussing and pulling off at the start/during feeds is your Lo attempting to stimulate your let down reflex = more milk also totally normal.

It is hard at times but by 3mo (DS) and straight away with dd we had got ovr the hurdles and it was easier because I was more confident, relaxed and we both enjoyed it for the rest of BF
DS 18mo (now 3 3/4)
DD 21 mo and still going

Its sounds to me like you're doing great well done!
I found the first few months really tough - you think its sorted, then they have a growth spurt and you can't keep up, it readjusts and then they have another spurt.

I tell my pg friends that whilst a lot of people say it takes 6-8 weeks for bf to be properly established, it was more like 12-14 for me and my DS to both know what we were doing. Then it was like falling off a log. Soooo much easier than bottle faff and sterilising etc. But you have to persevere!

You're doing great, stick with it xx

comixminx - why is the MW telling you to express? I have a bfed 7 week old and no-one has told me to express to up milk supply.

popcracker - I've gone to a couple of bf support events and had feedback. It's a fine line between feeling told-off and helped, sometimes, with that sort of thing, I feel - perhaps over-sensitively but still! Also when you get feedback at home, surrounded by your own stuff you are using, it seems better than getting it elsewhere when you might do things differently at home. I basically think that the feeding is working fine in general, though it could almost certainly be optimized. It's so hard to tell though - that's me going by gut instinct and the number of nappies!

Not quite sure what you mean by saying about feeding for 20 mins each side - do you mean that you think this is a lot or a little at that age?

Very glad to hear from various people that pumping is less efficient than the baby herself! I did get more out at one sitting initially, but that was when my milk first came in, I think.

MoonUnitAlpha - the mw told me to up the supply by expressing because DD is gaining weight a bit slower than the mw would like. She's gaining about 20 grams a day on average which sounds ok to me and is in line with a La Leche newsletter I have, but she was a smallish birthweight (6 lbs 6 oz) and lost 12% by time of first weighing. Since then she's gained slowly but steadily, but that's why.

Mine was feeding for up to an hour each time at 3 weeks.

He also had a growth at that age and seemed to feed constantly.

My daughter is 9 weeks old and has much the same feeding pattern as your son - max 2 hourly day and night. Though she will go from about 7/8pm till 12/1am most nights, she then wakes about every hour and a half till morning! She feeds very frequently in the mornings and most evenings too. She also gets frustrated at some feeds, mostly the evening ones, and it seems to be because of impatience with the slower milk flow between letdowns.

Like you I'm wondering if she'll always need to feed so often, and hoping she won't! But I've been told she's normal, and nothing you've said rings any alarm bells for me either.

comix please check that your dd is being measured against bf baby growth charts. Tbh i would think if she needed more milk she would just feed for longer.

Op your lo does sound very normal. I know it can feel a bit like you are stuck under the baby for ages but it will get better. Others have given you good advice for copeing with the marathon feeds. I recall a distinct improvement by three months. Ds seemed to become a much more efficient feeder. I remember being confused when he fussed at the boob, before realising he didn't need to feed like a newborn any more

Mamaloca that you doubted your body. Ff has been the norm for long enough for people to think that how ff babies behave is how all babies behave. But nature knows what she's doing, even if that means five hour feeding sessions.

sorry, was trying to put a at the end of that but accidentally posted.

Hi there,

Rest and don't worry.

It sounds to me as if you're just very lucky (yes read that right..) Your little one is a clever wee baby who is following their instinct to feed regularly in order to be healthy themselves and help put the order in to yourself to produce more later on.
My son did exactly the same and i thought there was something wrong, but no! All well and after a very rocky start i'm happily bfing him once a day still at 16months, so all is well that ends well.

I fel sad that as soon as I started to get really comfortable with bf-ing, he started to drop feeds.
The feeding-all-the-time phase really doesn't last forever...it can just feel like it in the middle of the night when you're knackered.

MoonFaceMama, yes, the charts in my red book are definitely the updated BF-based ones. But the MW weighing DD wasn't referring to the charts specifically so much as just generally feeling like the rate of growth wasn't that fast.

It does get better.

Feeding every two hours is normal. I was very frustrated about this at first, particularly as most of the books I read suggested feeding would be every three to four hours (which is more like formula feeding). My DS also fed for a very long time on each side so I'd only get a small break between feeds.

Buuuuut it does get better.

As someone else has suggested, make sure you're set up with everything you need. Eg my iPhone is invaluable for having the internet and various games at my fingertips (plus works for feeding in the dark at night!), while books and recording lots of programmes to watch in the day works too.

It gets better.

If he's gaining weight and producing dirty nappies you are producing more milk than you think. What you can express isn't a sign of what baby can get out.

I only leak/get hard boobs after a six-hour break at night - on those rare occasions when he sleeps that long. The rest of the time, nada.

It WILL get better - best of luck!

All sounds completely normal, OP! :)

You're doing great, you really are.

2 hourly feeding is absolutely normal. He'll start getting more efficient and feed quicker soon, but that's honestly not a sign of low supply. It will get easier and quicker and become second nature really soon.

He wants to suckling on you and next to you because he's so very very tiny. 8 weeks ago he was inside you and you literally are his world. Suckling is his driving instinct at the moment. Just gaze at him and sigh :)

Being able to express an ounce is fine. It's truly not a sign of anything.

Leakage and engorgement don't indicate good supply. Most women will stop leaking and experiencing before 12 weeks and some never will. It just means you're in sync with his requirements.

Yes - I had very similar experience to you, and similar concerns. Be aware that the regular feeds and broken nights can come back at growth spurts, but it will calm down.

Another thing i found was worth keeping in mind is that babies cry whe they're tired (rather than go to sleep - duh!), so if bubs hasn't slept for a while he may be tired, not hungry. I didn't figure this out for ages. Put him in a sling and take him for a walk and you'll find he drps of, wakes more refreshed and is less likely to fall asleep when feeding.

Hi, thanks for the messages...it's good to hear that others have experienced this too! I do think that I have been confusing hunger and tiredness as there are times he falls asleep at the breast a lot...sadly getting him to sleep is a whole other post!!

I was told with ds ... and it worked for me... that your LO head becomes cool to touch when they are tired(you notice it more giving a kiss than with fingers)so I started putting him down at that point. Getting him to stay down ... well like you said...anothe post

RaisingMrC - I'm going to answer your post first.

I can't shake off the feeling I don't produce much milk - here's why:
-he seems to need to feed a huge amount, roughly 2 hourly including at night.

Totaly normal for a baby at this age, (I really want to remove all referance in baby book's where they say they should feed every 3-4hours) BM is really easily digested, roughly 90 minutes transit time for digestion. Therefore it's prefectly fesable for a baby to want to feed this often. My own DD fed every 2hours during the day untill about 8months, although was going longer streaches at night.

-he feeds for ages at a time and doesn't seem to want to get off the boob, though granted he does fall asleep and dawdle a lot

Feed's can varry hugly in time from one baby to another, some are just much more efficent at feeding then others and mum's letdown offten varries a lot to. This is normal no two babies will feed for the same lenght of time. He most likly will get more efficent at feeding as he gets bigger. Although you said you have no problems with your latch have you had it checked by a train BF helper/couciler as sometimes even the smallest tweak can make a big difference. Don't forget BF actualy contains a hormone to induce sleep in baby and mum, so falling alseep at the breast it totaly normal espicaly when they are so little.

-I have only been able to express an ounce at a time (in about half an hour then stop out of boredom)

Lot's of women can sucessfuly BF but can't express, as OP have said a pump is no where near as efficent as you LO at removing milk from your breast. Expressing should never be used as an indicator of supply. I'm sure I could have quit happly fed twins but could never express.

-I've never suffered from leakage / rock hard boobs.

This again does not indicate a supply issue. Some women never leak (lucky you), and most women that do to start with find this stops after their supply seatles down.

So all in all sounds like your doing great, you need to relax put on some good DVD's and enjoy your new baby. :-). And if you'd like to do some more reading this website is great at explaing all the things to expect durning BF. www.kellymom.com/

Keep up the good work