Newborn has not latched on at all

[jasper]

My friend's baby is 2 days old and has not latched on at all or seemed remotely interested in the breast ( but will suck a finger).
Hospital staff say it may be due to the diamorphine used in labour. (also had forceps and epidural)
The mum is feeding the baby expressed milk from a dropper. Is this normal and is the baby likely to get interested in suckling soon?

Yes to the hospital's view !!!! Definitely doesn't help to have that sort of birth... too much intervention/pain killing drugs can make you woozy !
Yes he should get interested... is she doing skin to skin by the bucket ???? I presume he is full term?

I guess she has been told to get some milk on the nipple ??? And if none of that work I'd get a BF counsellor or a "good" MW/Mears ??? to have a look... at the risk of repeating myself not all MW or HV are good at BF advice ! Often they have had VERY little training and are not up to date - so don't rely blindly on hospital staff.... get an uptodate view.

Thanks Pupuce.
The baby was induced at ten days past EDD - needed oxytocin drip to get it going then all went very fast but without progressing ( where have I heard this before ?)
Her husband seems to think the hospital are giving lots of good advice and are on the case. I don't know how determined she is to breastfeed.

Agree with pupuce - co-bedding and lots of skin to skin contact, and hand expressing of breastmilk/colostrum.

The skin to skin isso important - no mother can manage to get her non-latching baby interested if he is in a crib zonked out. Yet this is what happens - with a fight every three hours when it's deemed time for a feed. My heart sinks when mothers tell me 'I think every midwife in the hospital tried to latch him on'....yes, I think, and they probably got your breast in one hand, and the baby's head in the other and totally confused and upset the baby and you, the mother....imagine being new to the world and having all those different hands messing you about

Gentle, loving patience while the baby learns to feed, stimulated by the smell, sound, touch and taste of his mum....it's much better

My DS wouldn't latch on until he was 6 days old (in fact, when we got home from hospital - the very first feed went fine!) - I was so upset because I had assumed it would all be so easy; he was initially induced & then I had to have an emergency c/s - I now believe that was why he wasn't interested in latching on - I thought it was my fault. I wasn't allowed home from hospital because he was losing weight, I also wasn't 'allowed' to give him formula because of the 'baby-friendly' policy (!!) until DH lost his temper & insisted on giving DS some formula.

Since Day 6 he was totally fine!!

Sorry to ramble on.

jasper is your friend in hospital in london? if so I can give you the tel number of a breastfeeding counsellor who will visit her and get her latched on beautifully in about 2 minutes. hospital midwives are useless at this sort of thing, as tiktok has more tactfully suggested!

Thanks everyone.
I don't know how she is getting on today - (not in London PPH but thanks very much for the offer)but i do know the expressing is not a problem so far.

Jasper - your friend had the same birth experience as me. I too was made to feel bad that he wasn't feeding enough, especially as he had to go under the light for jaundice, and they were worried about dehydration. I had to top up with formula. Plus, I got used to having a hand gripping my boob at all times, trying to shove my nipple into ds' mouth!

The positive side is that, with time and patience (and a lot of worrying), we cracked it, and I b/f for 14 months, until ds decided to give up. I hope your friend gets the help she needs.

Definately agree with Tiktok - as long as baby is getting EBM and is allowed to lie skin-to-skin as much as possible the baby will eventually become interested. It is not unusual for babies to be like this after that type of delivery. Lindy, as long as EBM is being given there is no need to give formula. We are a babyfriendly unit but is baby's blood sugars are not being maintained with EBM, then formula is permitted. It is getting the balance right.

My friend has decided to give up breastfeeding altogether. On the second night in hospital the baby was crying at 3 o'clock in the morning and she could not console him so she asked the staff for a bottle of formula which he took easily. She has concluded , I think, that breastfeeding is too much trouble.I feel a bit sad for her.I don't think she was particularly well informed but may be wrong.

Tiktok she is not cosleeping because she is a smoker and her community midwife told her you should not sleep with your baby if you are a smoker - is this the case?

That's a shame Jasper. If her baby sucks a bottle then it would have latched on. It takes a lot of confidence and support to persist.
It is true that mothers who smoke are not advised to co-sleep. This is different to having prolonged skin-to-skin contact though. Co sleeping is the baby being in bed all night. There is a higher risk of sudden infant death syndrome with smokers and research has shown that smokers exhale chemicals even though they are not smoking at the time - hence the advice not to co-sleep.

I spoke to the mum today.
I don't think she is particularly educated /motivated/informed re. breasfeeding.
Her mother said of another daughter with a newborn who plans to bf till 4m at least " whatever turns you on".
These are educated people!

Question for bf educators....wher do youstart , when so called intelligent people are so misinformed?
I am feeling quite sad about this tonight

Also the mother said " I thought I might give it (bf) another try but then I would reawaken all that milk production stuff...."( said while prodding brests in a disgusted way)
This is an alleged intelligent woman.

For me supporting breastfeeding is one of the hardest things to do. In order to make an informed choice women need to be told of the benefits of breast feeding. Hospitals are striving to do this because of the proven health benefits which continue into adulthood. The downside to that is we are then accused of pressurising women to breastfeed.

Breastfeeding does not always come easy because of various problems such as sleepy babies whose mothers have had pain relief during labour etc. Breastfeeding problems can be overcome but I find often they have been left too long and are therefore difficult to turn around. It is vital to have support from people who know about breastfeeding and sadly, many midwives are not as informed as they should be. Mothers are therefore given conflicting advice and can get very frustrated. If they do not have confidence in themselves then they will find it difficult to succeed.

Supporting a mother can be very hard too because you know that the problem can be overcome but it involves a lot of hard work on the mothers part. It may be too much for her and she then continues because she doesn't want to let you down. The focus has then shifted which makes things even harder.

This is why it is vitally important to get breastfeeding off to a good start. Unless you have midwives who have an indepth knowledge of breastfeeding - some mothers are doomed to failure through no fault of their own. There is little point in informing women of the benefits and then depriving them of the assistance they need. As more women breastfeed it will become more 'normal' and women will feel less isolated. Many women have never seen a baby being breastfed in their lives but most will have seen a baby being bottle fed.

I absolutely accept that there are women who do not want to breastfeed and that is their choice. That does not mean that the information should not be given. Women are advised of the risks of smoking during pregnancy - it is their choice whether they continue to do so or not.

The most satisfying thing however is helping someone overcome their difficulties who then goes on to continue breastfeeding.