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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Latching issue - nearly 3 wk old baby who won't open mouth wide enough to latch on effectively

23 replies

lumpybits · 18/09/2010 08:49

I have bf my dd since birth and she has been gaining weight and is generally a contented little thing. However, in the last week my nipples have become increasingly sore. I went to the bf clinic yesterday and the MW thought she may have a slight, but insignificant, tongue tie but she thought the main problem was her latching on. She doesn't seem able to open her mouth wide enough to latch on properly. We tried a couple of positions and nothing seemed to work. She is a very effective feeder so her less than brilliant latch does not effect her, it's just me that's in agony!

Does anyone have any experience with this problem? I would really appreciate some advice on how to get her to open her mouth more. Also, is there anyway this could be down to some damage caused during birth? I had a normal delivery - no forceps or ventous so I assume not. If this is a long term problem can I use nipple sheilds? Or are they not really to be used long term?

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for your help.

OP posts:

nickytwotimes · 18/09/2010 09:07

Oh, lumpy, ouch!

It took my ds till 6 weeks to get his little mouth open wide enough for my comfort, but I wasn't in as much discomfort as you.

COuld you see a bfing counsellor at all2? I mean one who does that as a main job, not as part of mwifery? Just to get a different slant?

Hopefull2y more people will come along soon to suggest things.6

Ineedsomesleep · 18/09/2010 09:19

You could try Lanisnoh but I agree with nicky, I think that you really need to speak to a bfing counsellor. Have you got a number of a local one?

TanteRose · 18/09/2010 09:24

this may sound crazy, but have you tried asking your baby to open her mouth wider? And open your mouth really wide to show her how it's done?

Seriously, you may feel like a loon, but I have heard that it works - you have to say something like "OK, sweetheart, you need to open your mouth really wide, like this " and she may well copy you....

you can only try...

Original poster

lumpybits · 18/09/2010 09:27

Thanks for your replies. I am going to a different clinic on Monday as the MW suggested seeing someone else for a different slant - I will ask them about a bfing counsellor then. TanteRose, I will give it a go thanks. I've got nothing to lose after all!

OP posts:

jemjabella · 18/09/2010 09:46

I'd get a second opinion on the tongue tie just in case it needs snipping.

Ineedsomesleep · 18/09/2010 10:04

If you don't want to wait until Monday to find out about a local Bfing Counsellor, then you could contact your local LLL Group or contact your local branch of the NCT They whould both be able to put you in touch with someone. Personally, I wouldn't wait especially as you are in pain. I'd ring them now, that's what they are there for

You might also want to read this on tongue tie.

browneyesblue · 18/09/2010 10:23

I second jemjabella - I'm not sure that a midwife (or any HP) can tell whether a tongue tie is insignificant just by examining it.

A very obvious tongue tie (type 1 or 2) may cause no difficulties, and a less obvious tongue tie (type 3 or 4) may cause significant problems - or vice versa!

The only way to judge how significant a tongue tie is is to examine any problems/nipple trauma the mother is experiencing, and/or problems the baby has with feeding.

When I tried to get DS's tongue tie diagnosed, I found this useful.

prettybird · 18/09/2010 13:58

If you have discoutned physical reasons (like a tongue tie), you might find "posting" your boob into your dd's mouth.

By that I mean sort of squishing your boob into a flat rectangle (like a letter box) and then manoeuvering it into your dd's mouth (tip her head back slightly as you do so).

This is what the BFCs at my manternity hopsital showed me to do with my ds who was a lazy feeder (although he was so gentle I never suffered the pain you are going through)

Original poster

lumpybits · 18/09/2010 15:48

Thanks for all your responses. I have just called the NCT helpline and spoke to a lactation specialist. In her opinion it is the tongue tie that is stopping her opening her mouth fully so now I just need to work out how to get referred to a specialist. She told me to look at the babyfriendly website to find a hospital near me that divides tongue tie. Does anyone know how I can get referred? Can I phone the hospital direct or do I need a MW/GP to refer me?

OP posts:

browneyesblue · 18/09/2010 16:08

Different hospitals have different referral criteria, so it's worth calling and finding out what's needed. Do you know which hospital is closest to you?

The closest to me was King's College, and I got a GP referral for them. Some places are fine with midwife/lactation consultant referrals.

BTW, not all the hospitals are listed on the babyfriendly website so if you can't see one near you it may be worth asking on here for a closer place.

Meglet · 18/09/2010 16:17

My dd never opened her mouth wide enough to feed, the bf counsellor said she didn't seem to have tougue tie or anything. I just squeezed my nipple into a 'letterbox' shape so it would get in her mouth neatly (like prettybirds suggestion above). But it always made bf tricky when we were out as I had to fiddle about to get her to latch on.

She always piled on the weight and I didn't get sore so I must have done something right.

ethelina · 18/09/2010 16:24

Prettybird posting is also what my lactation specialist advised me to do for my lazy boy who just could not be bothered to form the latch himself. All the things they tell you not to do we eventually tried and after an hour and ten minutes he finally got the hang! He gets a much deeper latch now and very quickly too. Lumpybits She said sometimes it's worth trying a bad habit or two like literally shoving the nipple at babes mouth to firmly plant it deeper in and in the end if it works then who's to say it's wrong? She would probably get told off for that but it got me successfully feeding so there must be something in it.

blackcurrants · 18/09/2010 16:40

lumpybits my DS's tongue tie was 'slight' but it wasn't till I got it snipped that the pain stopped. I'm always cheerleading for people getting tongue-ties fixed on this board, cos it absolutely changed my BFing experience - and got much more milk into DS, too!

MumNWLondon · 18/09/2010 20:55

try also lansinoh lastch assist?

Ineedsomesleep · 20/09/2010 19:16

Lumpybits how did you go on today? Did you find a hospital or go to the other clinic?

Thandeka · 20/09/2010 19:18

also try breastfeeding in the bath- for some reason only place dd would open mouth wide. I had same issues with "slight" tongue tie- had it snipped and it transformed the feeding.

Defo get it done if you can.

fernie3 · 20/09/2010 19:38

I do what prettybird said I sorting of flatten my nipple and push it into her mouth and once its in there she seems fine.

Original poster

lumpybits · 21/09/2010 15:33

Thanks for all your replies. No joy yesterday. Saw a health visitor who agreed it was a problem and sent me back to the hospital to get a referral but the MW there said it was still a latch issue and told me to come back if still having problems at the end of the week. Am so fed up with the whole thing at the moment. I will try the posting thing and see how that goes and then if no joy by Friday I might try tears at the hospital and see if that works! I hate the fact that it all depends on someones personal view as to whether I can get a referral or not. I'm determined not to give up, just wish it wasn't so hard. Thankfully DD is still doing really well so none of this is upsetting her.

OP posts:

RubyBuckleberry · 21/09/2010 16:05

my ds has a slight tongue tie (as do i ) that caused me a crcked nipple (and i caused my mum a cracked nipple ). i had to be really strict with my ds - basically i would see all the signs that he was hungry - little baby bird, tongue darting in and out, hitting mouth, rooting against DHs chest haha etc etc and at first i would hold him ready, but not actually latch him on until he opened his mouth wide, even if it took a minute or so. sometimes he would cry and bingo - nice wide mouth! and then on he went. i had to express off the cracked side and then be really strict with him. he protested but i had to make sure he had a wide mouth to save any further damage.

i don't know if this helps and it is entirely anecdotal, but as he got bigger, his mouth got bigger and we are still going at 11 months. we never got it snipped as it was a mild tt.

hairymelons · 21/09/2010 16:19

How annoying. It's not really up to the MW to decide if it's a problem or not. My MW referred me to the TT/ BF specialist who then decided whether the TT was causing a problem or if it was latch.

It's unfortunate that there are all these different systems in place. Do you know the name of the person who runs the clinic? You could try phoning direct and say you're struggling to get a referral but are in lots of pain.

DS's TT was sorted before he was 2 weeks old but it had already shredded my nipples so goodness knows how you are managing. One trick I was shown to get more breast into his mouth was, once DS was latched on, to gently lift up his top lip then drop it back down again- the suction from him feeding would cause him to take more breast in which was much more comfortable. You can do the same with the bottom lip.

Hope you get some joy soon.

browneyesblue · 22/09/2010 01:03

Hmmm - that's very annoying, but unfortunately it's not that uncommon a story

I'm not sure what the MW is trying to say - tongue-tie can cause problems with latching on. That's why it's so bloody painful. If I were in your position (and I was) I would find the nearest hospital/clinic and contact them directly (which is what I did!)

Do you know the nearest place? If not, maybe someone here could help you find it.

I struggled to get a referral, so ended up contacting my chosen hospital directly (King's College - Mr Sailesh Patel)to find out what they needed. I then went to my GP (again) with all the details and asked for a referral. I told the GP that DS had been diagnosed with a tongue-tie and gave the fax number that the referral had to be sent to. GP sent referral on the same day.

Mr Patel said he considers tongue-tie to be a feeding emergency, and DS was treated within 2 weeks. It was a long day though - lots of other babies being snipped.

RubyBuckleberry Mr Patel also said that sometimes the pain improved as the baby's mouth grew bigger. It certainly became less painful for me as DS grew, but I still got it snipped as I felt it could be better. BF is now entirely pain-free.

browneyesblue · 22/09/2010 01:10

Forgot to say, DS also was putting on weight well - he's always been between 75th and 97th centile.

I was told that I had a bit of an oversupply, which meant that he was getting plenty of milk, despite the fact that his latch was so painful. He didn't need to work very hard for milk at all.

ReneRusso · 22/09/2010 09:20

Hi lumpybits,
I have a very similar problem. DD has always slurped onto the end of the boob rather than opening really wide. We have tried lots of "open wide" games with her which has helped a lot - we all open our mouths wide and get her to copy, her latch has improved, not hugely but noticeably. Also BF cousnellor recommended I take her to a cranial osteopath for this problem, but I haven't got round to it. Might be worth a try, even if it was not a traumatic birth.

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