Is HV right?

[IckleJess]

Took DS (14 weeks) to be weighed this morning, he has put on just over a kilo (2lbs 4oz) in 6 weeks which I don't think is too bad but he has dropped a little under the line he was following. He is EBF, weighed 7lb 12oz at birth and is now 13lb 8oz.

The HV said she was a little concerned he has dropped off his line but I said he is sleeping for an 8/9hr stretch at night now so maybe that was why but she said it could be that the quality of my milk is poor.

I misunderstood her and thought she meant supply to which I rsponded that I have lots of milk but she said it doesn't matter how much I have if the quality is no good he won't gain as much weight.

Well, he is gaining weight, he is happy and content, plenty of wet and dirty nappies, sleeps through at night - I shouldn't be concerned should I? And what about the 'quality'? I'm not sure I've heard of that before - and DS is my 4th baby It's making me doiubt myself now, and if my milk is crap what can I do to improve it?

She also said that BF babies need weaning earlier than FF so if he starts waking at night after 17 weeks I should wean him

My nan stoppped bfeeding her first DC 60 odd years ago because her milk was 'poor quality', they told her it was weak milk. After that she didn't even try to bf her later DC because she felt incapable of giving them 'strong' milk .
You'd have thought the HCPs and HVs would have had some more training since then!!

Hope all goes well OP, I'd avoid your HV like the plague. If this is what shes saying now just imagine what nuggets of advice shes got in store for you!

What utter utter bollocks!

"Quality of your milk" my arse. How very dare she.

That's a shit thing for anyone to say, let alone a supposed profession specifically trained in this area. Ooo that has really made me mad!

You sound like you are doing fab. My DS was EBF up to weaning at around 5.5/6 months and he has a wavy line not a textbook curve. As long as you DS is putting weight on relatively steadily and there are no other concerns tell her to stfu.

And at sleeping 8/9hr stretch at 14 weeks!

complete crap! My DD2 is 13 weeks, took her to be weighed yesterday and she was 10lb 8. She's gone from 50th centile at birth to 9th now, and I asked HV about her weight as various family members have mentioned she's feeding too often/too small etc. Luckily i have a lovely enlightened HV who said she is perfectly healthy, and the charts were based on FF babies anyway and as long as she is happy and has plenty of dirty nappies she is fine.

Ignore the idiots, you know your own baby!

putthekettleon is completely right. I actually downloaded a BF chart from the nhs websit i think it was and compared her weight from the FF one that was in her red book. She was below average on FF but bang on if not slightly over for the BF one. I was so cuffed my milk was so good I BF til she was well over 1 yrs old.

Do you have poor quality milk? Well we can easily find that out. Just answer this simple yes or no question.

Are you about to die from severe malnutrition?

If the answer is yes then its likely your milk is suffering as your body will be diverting its resources to other parts of your body in the futile attempt to keep you alive.

If the answer is no then you are producing good quality milk.

When my husband was a baby, his mother was told by her GP to wean him at 9 weeks old as her milk wasn't nourishing him enough!!

Luckily he's fine with no digestive problems, but agh, I would have hoped the knowledge of health professionals had improved in 30 years.

Bet she has had training sponsored by a formula company. I'd give her a leaflet about breastfeeding.

And the comment about your milk?! How very dare she!

There was actually a big hoo-ha about this a few years ago, with the World Health Organisation calling for a complete change to way that babies are monitored in the UK. If you're interested there's an abstract from a study done around this time here:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1740-8709.2005.00018.x/abstract

Basically the argument was that centile charts were generally created using formula fed babies in a time when formula was considered to be healthier and more nutritious than breastmilk. As other posters have pointed out breastfed babies tend to follow a wavy line of weight increase rather than a curve so it makes no sense whatsoever to judge a bf baby on an ff chart. I'm really surprised your HV doesn't know this OP and it might be worth pointing it out her at your next visit (in the nicest possible way of course :o )

While you're at it you could tell her that the quality of milk fairies visited you one night and touched your boobs with their magic wand and made it all better. Seriously where did she get the quality of milk thing from?? Is she hallucinating?

God this makes me so cross - how dare they undermine BFing mothers in this way?

I would be inclined to report her.

Bollocks. But I have even heard this from a neonatal consultant. When (very prem) DS was in hospital he didn't gain much for a long time (he had lung problems and used all his energy to breathe). Consultant suggested I did not have much protein in my milk and suggested we try 50% formula which duly appeared on top of his incubator. I said a flat no and told the nurse to take it away and it was never mentioned again. Pissed me off though!

Ignore, sounds like your baby is fine, and you will know best about him anyway.

Poor quality milk?

Is there anything more insulting you could say to a bf mother?

Bleeding cheek.

Mine today would be made up of 3 packets of Roysters crisps, one muller light yogurt (see, I mad the effort), two cups of tea and some cous cous.

Yum.

My DC5 is a huge great trougher (thanks for that word MNs). I am waiting to be told he is obese. Mind you trying to get him weighed is not easy round here. All the HVs are off sick. I had to take him to Boots, weigh myself (sigh) then weight myself holding him.

He is now over 20lb. Low quality milk my arse.

Shocked at your post! Cannot believe that health professionals are allowed to give out such shit advice! I think that I wuld also be inclined to complain about her. Is she a qualified health visitor or a staff nurse? Not that it should matter but if she is a staff nurse she will be "attached" to a health visitor and you could speak to them.

Guidelines are clear - breastfed babies do not need weaned earlier that formula fed babies! WTF is she talking about. In fact, she could be putting babies lives in danger by making such sweeping statements.

And how does she know that your milk is of poor quality? Did she try some herself?

I think there is a real problem in this country with the frankly peculiar information which is being doled out, unchallenged, to mothers up and down the country.

When we hear "the advice keeps changing" on Mumsnet we all sniffily say, no it doesn't, it's been the same for 7-odd years. But I think people keep thinking the advice changes, because with each baby they get told a different thing by their midwives / HVs.

I know this is slightly off topic. But I really, really think it's part of the same piece. My sister's just had another baby and has been told my her HV that the weaning advice has changed again, to eight months and that baby sleeping bags are linked with cot death, which is peculiar as they are recommended by FSID. Where does all this stuff come from? And why isn't it being regulated? I can't help feeling that if men were repeatedly being given erroneous, damaging and misleading information, presented as fact, during a near-universal life experience, there would be hell to pay.

I think the saddest thing about today and the batty HV is that whilst in the waiting room beforehand I got chatting with another mum who had an 8 week old. She was saying she hoped her LO had gained weight this week as she'd been told she needed to put her on to formula due to lack of gain. She said she had nearly stopped BFing her now so she should have put on weight from the formula.

I was a bit at this but as I'd never met her before I didn't want to make her feel bad/guilty etc by being all evangelical about bfing and I didn't know the whole story.

However, having now heard first hand the shite the HV spouts about low weight gain etc I now feel extremely sad that this poor woman was most likely made to feel her milk wasn't good enough for her baby

that's awful OP - do you think you could complain about this?

no way should HVs be spouting this sort of crap, especially if it's going to result in people stopping bfing when they are doing perfectly well.

Totally at the HV.

But before Tiktok comes on to correct us again, the "old" centile charts were not based on FF babies - they were based on all babies, the majority of which were formula fed.

But I am sure that she will also be very angry disappointed at such crap advice from a HV.

We really should start complaining because there is a theory being banded around that more HV's are required on a national scale and if they will all be as well trained as this one the babies will be the losers.
Mine told me my baby didn't want that breast he wanted a good cry when i went to feed him in front of her in my own home, the witch was shown out quickly after that gem.

The thing is, HVs are not trained in breastfeeding - I'm sure I've heard they only get a few hours. That plus hearsay and they're let loose to enlighten new mums

Agree with other posters who have recommended that you complain.

It doesn't even need to be a formal complaint- you can give feedback through the PALS section of the PCT. (sorry can't for the life of me remember what it stands for now but you can do it online).

I did this following an incident with my HV and as a result she was spoken to my her manager and I changed HV.

I truly believe that things will only change if we do complain- although of course they know that most mothers are too knackered to follow it up. Perhaps that's what they're counting on.

Thank you to all the people talking sense on this thread. My wife showed it to me as she had been researching BF v FF etc as DS3 isn't gaining weight as fast as he could be. However he's gaining weight weekly, growing in length and doing really well. I'm been trying to reassure her that he's fine and her milk is enough for him but those bloody charts and an insensitive HV have had her worried.

As a school teacher and a graduate scientist I know that every child is different and progress curves can be onerous and odious.

No one who's recently had a baby and is persevering with BF deserves a mauling over shoddy statistics.

Hello befuddled

You've come to the right place - there's a wealth of information on here.

Ask your wife to start a thread on here. She'll be swimming in experienced BF mothers and counsellors before she knows where she is!

As long as your DS has wet and pooey nappies and seems alert, I'm sure he's fine. I take it he's feeding on demand?

There are some really helpful docs here from The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health about the new (red book) weight charts and how to work out what the numbers actually mean - what's normal and what's worth worrying about.

These new charts were brought in in 2009 but I'd be interested to know if everyone gets them by default - or are the old charts still kicking around in some places? The old ones were responsible for many parents being given poor advice on BF - sounds like some HVs are continuing the inglorious tradition ...

Do you know what? Just before I clicked on this thread I thought to myself 'I bet the answer to the OP's question is NO.'

Do I win a prize?

Complain. Complain. Complain. I was lucky enough to have very good (if very over-stretched in inner city London) HVs who knew the breastfeeding and weaning guidelines inside out and didn't bat an eyelid when my 91st centile exc BF son dropped off the line to 50th by 6 months. He was healthy and growing and that was all that mattered.

Sounds like she was "trained" by her mum, or her gran, or her Auntie Morag .

It's amazing the way so many HCPs totally dismiss their training if it contradicts how they brought up their own children, or what their old ma told them.

I don't believe for a second that she sat in a room on a bf course being told "bf babies need weaning earlier and of course some women have poor quality milk". No, she sat in a room being told about breast feeding but her mind was saying "that's all bollocks because my mum had us on meat and two veg by 8 weeks and I turned out fine".

It's like the GP telling you "well I know some people say warts are caused by a virus and they'll eventually disappear on their own but I think you'll find the skin of a toad very helpful".

Another one who (sadly) could answer the question of the title without opening the thread.

How depressing.

Your HV is a fruit loop. Ignore, ignore, ignore and preferably complain, complain complain - there will be (already are, by the sounds of your subsequent post) other less experienced mums whose BFing is being totally undermined and sabotaged by her utterly nonsensical spoutings. I'd go so far as to say you have a duty to raise this with her superiors - you do know better, and you shouldn't be concerned.