Expressing Fully to feed a 10 Week Old

[Rosmum]

My son is nearly 10 weeks old, and I am finding breastfeeding really hard going. He has never been easy to feed and is a very unsettled baby generally, bobbing on and off and crying a lot. He will however happily suck a bottle with no problem. Is it possible to express my milk rather than breastfeed him at this stage. I have a good supply and he is putting on an average of 10ozs per week. I would presume he would need about 30-35 ozs a day based on his weight of 14lbs going on what my book says about formula fed babies, and at present I can express between 4-8 ozs at one time depending on the time of day. I would be content supplement as required with formula bottles as necessary day, and I want to give up fully when he is 16 weeks anyway.
I only intended feeding him for the first few weeks and can't believe we have lasted this long despite all the hitches, but the hassle and stress and tears at feeding time really have become too much at this stage for both of us.

I don't mind feeding but don't particularly love it and I have no problems with bottle feeding him as he is content to suck from a bottle.

Has anyone any advice, I use a Medela Mini Electric Pump and have already frozen a weeks supply of milk because of my huge supply. I was able to get up in the middle of the night after feeding him and express 6 ozs! I have no problem doing this now if necessary.

Please let me know if anyone else has managed to express for about 6 weeks to keep giving their baby breastmilk.

wheres Mears?

I would say bobbing on and off is wind?

A friend of mine had a similar experience and it turned out her son was slightly tongue-tied hence the ease with a bottle - can he stick his tongue out. Just a thought.

I read in the NCT magazine about a woman who expressed to feed for a year (due to large breasts!) she said she ended up just having to do it a couple of times a day - I can look out the article if you're interested

Rosmum - you must be doing something right to have such a good weight gain Perhaps you are offering the breast when he doesn't actually want it - hence the bobbing on and off. Some babies actually feed really quickly (under 5 mins) but mums don't think they could have had enough in that time. Overfeeding leads to over supply which leads to unsettled baby. My friend had a baby like that and when he started bobbing about she took him off the breast and gave him a dummy. He wanted to suck but didn't want the milk IYKWIM. I think that might be an easier plan than having to sit and express then give a bottle which is going to double up your feeding time. You certainly can express and give milk by bottle but eventually your milk will reduce. Why do you plan to stop feeding at 16 weeks out of interest?

Hi,

I am expressing exclusively for my 6 month old twins - so it can be done ! However, it is no way as easy as breast feeding so consider long and hard before you go down that route. If you have abundant supply you will probably find it easier. If you prefer it may be a good a idea to go for a mixture of breast feeding and expressing - that way you won't have the problem a lot of people get (me included) of a breast feeding baby that won't touch a bottle.

If you really want to go down the expressig route then get/hire an electric pump that allows you to pump both sides together - much quicker and more productive (you can get them through the NCT or from ameda egnell).

I currently pump about 5 times a day for up to 1/2 an hour at a time - if your supply is good you probably could get away with less.

If you do decide to do this get back to me - I can give you pointers to web resources that may help.

Mears, I think I had that problem at one point - ds desperately wanted to suck but didn't want any more milk - particularly shooting down his throat! The dummy was a godsend for that.

Thank you four your comments. My son is quite windy. He normally wriggles and I burp him and start again, but I find feeding quite difficult. He will go on ok, suck for a few minutes, bob on and off and then start crying. He is very unsettled during the day apart from first thing in the morning. He wakes about 7.30am having fed two or three times during the night, perhaps about 6am being the last one. I offer him the breast at that time but he is only interested in a short feed. Then within the hour he is back in bed and sleeps for about 40 mins. He normally feeds about 10-10.30am and after that every three hours or so. The problem is that he is very unsettled all day, and will not sleep well after the first sleep of the day. I end up having to walk around with him, in a sling or in the pram, or in my arms or else he is very whingey but seemingly constantly tired and in a state of perpetual doziness, hence difficulty with feeding as he seems so grumpy and tired. Therefore it is easier to give him a bottle of EBM.

I have tried swadddling, rocking, etc etc and nothing gets him to sleep for more than 20 minutes. The reason why I wanted to express was to see exactly what he was getting to ensure that it was not lack of milk especially during the day that was keeping him from going into any kind of deep sleep. I actually find I can express in about 10 minutes. I expressed 11 ozs this morning as my husband kept the baby overnight for me to give me a break. That was after expressing 5 ozs at 10pm.

I am really trying to see if I can determine firstly why he is unsettled, and trying to rule out one thing at a time. He never seems to have been happy breastfeeding, and as I say will contently suck a bottle, and when removed to wind him will squeal the house down to have it reinsterted. I have given him a dummy, which he loves. I only intended breastfeeding for 4 months as I am back to work after that and it would be nigh impossible to keep up expressing after that. I work in an all male environment and have to be at meetings with the public every day and do not have regular lunch, teabreaks etc.

My son will settle easily at about 7.30pm at night, and will sleep till about 1pm, after that all his sleeps are restless and noisy.

Perhaps my problem is a sleeping one rather than a feeding one, but the two seem to be interlinked. I would be happy to breastfeed him for the next 6 weeks directly if I could but I think once he gets used to bottles will probably prefer these.

I expressed fully from when my son was 6 days old until he was 14 weeks old. I also had a horrible time breastfeeding in the first few days but really wanted him to have breastmilk. Like anything, once you get a routine going its easier - I expressed 4 times a day and could usually get 8 oz in about 20 minutes. The main problem I found was the time involved - your feeding, expressing and sterilising bottles/pump all day long!! But I felt a lot better that my son was getting breastmilk. I did find that I suffered mastitis a lot (4 times in 8 weeks). Not sure if this is due the expresssing though.

My daughter use to do the old sucking for a few minutes and then screaming and having excessive wind but once she got to about 6 weeks it seemed to stop. I found feeding her more or less every 3 hours as opposed to continually did help to ensure she took a good feed but it felt like it took forever what with the continual screaming and burping. I use to express at 10am and give her a bottle then simply because it was quicker so i could get out and about with my eldest. It sounds harsh but have you tried leaving your baby to see if he/she resettles themself when they wake up after 20 minutes. My eldest was a very unsettled baby and use to literally scream all day, we later realised that it was due to overtiredness because we were picking her up to comfort her every time she cried when most of the time she just desperately wanted to go back to sleep. I read somewhere that a baby under 3 months should not be kept awake for more than 2 hours at a time and i've followed this advice with my second. I also read that they need a longer sleep in the middle of the day which is the time when their attention and alertness starts to dip. My youngest (10 weeks) now sleeps for 45 minutes in the morning, 2 1/4 hours at lunch and then about 1 hour in the afternoon and then sleeps from 7pm - 7am only waking up at about 4am for a 30 minute feed. If overtiredness could be the problem then the repeated feeding (milk shooting down her throat) could well be aggrevating her. We swore second time around that the best thing (in my opinion) that we could do was give our baby the ability to fall asleep on her own without rocking, feeding etc and i have to say that it has been a complete godsend - difficult to do initially but for us well worth it. Good Luck

Rosmum - since you have such an abundance of milk you would be better to feed him from one side only at a time. By that I mean feed him, wind him and then put him back on the same side. By doing that he will get more of the satisfying hind milk and might settle longer. You could express from the other side if it felt overfull. Some babies unfortunately are disgruntled whatever way you feed them. Yours sounds as though he is a baby who doesn't want to sleep. Will he sleep if he is taken out in the pram? What about being outside in the pram to sleep - babies often sleep longet then - obviously with the pram where you can see it. Maybe you need to try and leave him a bit as others have suggested to settle. Good luck.

Rosmum - you sound as if you are doing brilliantly. I have expressed for the past 8 weeks for my DD so it is possible. Re the bobbing on and off - might be worth checking if you have nipple thrush. My DS thrashed and bobbed when feeding and it turned out that I had thrush and he had it in his mouth - he was also unsettled. We were both treated and he was a much happier baby. Worth a thought.

By the way - I seem to carry my baby around all the time and he is 4.5 months. he woke at 6 30 am had an hour at 8.30 and then has only just gone back to bed now....

Grrr Babies!

My ds was very unsettled at this age, he too didn't sleep very long in the day. A friend recommended he saw a cranial osteopath which he did. He has been for 3 sessions so far and is definately more relaxed although he always will be a nosey baby who wants to be up and moving around alot. I don't know what sort of birth your son had but mine had a ventouse delivery and was engaged for a long time with a hand at the side of his head. The osteopath said that the build up of pressure could cause the crying and unsettled behaviour. Anyway good luck with the expressing it sounds as if you're doing really well with it. Hopefully your son will calm down as he gets older.

I too highly rate cranial osteopaths!

Hi Rosmum

I exclusively expressed for my DD who was born at 34 weeks and continued until I dried up at around 14 weeks - I expressed 2-3 hourly over the 24 hour period, found dual pumping worked best for both equal production on both sides and quickness. To take the hassle out of this frequent task I also wore a expressing bra (Halterneck) perhaps you have heard of them, if not go to www.liverbabes.net. and follow the links through to breastfeeding and expressing.

I can recommend an excellent Ameda Egnell pump - called the Lactaline Personal, its similar to the Medela one you are using but smaller, lighter, you can easily take it to work as it comes with a handy "sports bag" type thing. You can buy from your local NCT pump agent or from Ameda directly (depending on your whereabouts in the UK).

Like you I never intended to go down this route but found that in the end it took all the hassle and stress away but gave me peace of mind that DD was getting all EBM.

Re going back to work and expressing throughout the day, you probably know that your milk making hormones are most prevalent in the middle of the night and first thing in the morning so even if you just express then you are likely to get loads off before you go to work, then either b/f or express once during the evening. The milk will dry up eventually the less you put the baby to the breast and if you start dropping feeds as its the frequency of doing it which keeps you in production and supply mode as opposed to quantity and size of breasts.

Again many thanks for the thoughts and support. I had the first full day of expressing yesterday and it went very well, and I do not know if it was a fluke or was it perhaps that I was a bit calmer, but ds took 3 naps of between 30 mins to 1 hour in between feeds. My friend has suggested that perhaps he was taking in a bulk of milk during the night and therefore only snacking during the day. I didn't find it too cumbersome as I had always at least one/two bottles expressed in advance to take the pressure off me.

I have made an appointment with the doc to check for thrush. Hopefully she will be a bit more sympathetic that the doctor I went to after my first child was born with chronic mastitis. I also suffered terribly from backache which had affected me on and off for years. The doctor took one look at me and asked me why I had put myself through the "trauma" of breastfeeding when there was a perfectly good alternative to it in formula. Needless to say, being in pain, and feeling vulnerable I ended up giving up a week later after my second bout of mastitis. This time has actually been somewhat easier, and I switched GP practices after that.

I have taken my son in his pram to see if he will sleep and as soon as we stop he wakes. Likes perpetual motion I think, have also left him to cry, which my HV suggested and after 30 minutes of hysterical screaming despite reassurances that I was there I rescued him. It upset me and his sister to hear him and I really think he is too young to be left to scream it out at this age. If it was only a grizzle I could have let him go but he cried so hard he was sobbing afterwards still on and off for about an hour. I think he is quite a sensitive wee thing and he may be more dependent on me than his independent sister aged 3. I think their personalities are formed prior to birth and thats that.

I am going to take him to a cranial osteopath as well, as I figure it can do no harm. He was born normally after a very short labour. My waters broke at 4.30am and he was born at 7.10am. Luckily we live right next to the hospital as I had intended to stay at home until probably 9am but the pain was intense so my husband persuaded me to go in. By the time I got to hospital at 6.20am I was 7 cms dilated and he was born within the hour. He was certainly in a rush to meet us.

Anyway once again many thanks for the support and advice, it is much appreciated.

Rosmum
Just to add that to me, it sounds more of a sleep problem than a feed problem. My ds had very similar difficulties in getting to sleep during the day - it got significantly worse around the age your ds is now, as he got more interested in his surroundings and fought daytime naps more. I used to try to get him to sleep within 2 hours of being awake - at that age it would require movement in the buggy or in a sling to get him off (after maybe 10-20 mins of crying), I also tried leaving him to cry in his cot but like your ds he was just too young to settle himself to sleep(he managed it at about 4 months though). I also found a dummy was useful to help him get to sleep at this age.
I also had some feeds where he would be very unsettled and scream a lot - I think I just put it down to being hungry and overtired.
Anyway I hope you find a solution - personally the idea of exclusively expressing seems to me the worst of all worlds, the hassle of expressing plus the hassle of sterilising bottles etc; but then I was lousy at expressing so it was never a consideration for me!

Haven't read the rest of the replies, but my ds was born with a cleft lip and palate and I was unable to b/f. I exclusively expressed for 10 months. It's hard going but if you really want to do it it is possible. No-one seems to see it as a long term option and I have only ever seen one article about long-term expressing (in an nct new gen mag - might be in their archives somewhere if you have a look?), but it can be and has been done. And IMHO far preferable, if possible, than switching to formula. BW and good luck.

anais, thanks for support, have been away so not able to check so often. What type of pump did you use and how often did you express? I am currently expressing 5 times a day every four hours from 6am, although not during the night anymore and getting between 5 - 8oz per go. It gives me great comfort hearing about other people managing to express. I think it is a pity that it is not lauded more as an option, because some people might prefer to express than give up totally. I had not known anyone actually do it long term before.
My ds is definitely more settled, maybe because I am, at least now I know what he is drinking and therefore can rule out hunger if he is whingey. He has also settled into regular naps, short but at least he is now taking them and therefore not getting so overtired. I don't miss breastfeeding at all! Its a relief not to have to look for feeding rooms when I am out now, and can manage to get out and about more between 4 hourly expressing sessions rather than sporadic breastfeeds.

Rosmum, as you say, long term expressing does have its advantages

I didn't know of anyone else doing it long term either - sometimes it feels really isolating, as you're not b/fing, but your not bottle feeding either. I was just determined to stick at it - despite everyone suggesting I give up, at every opportunity. Nobody understodd how much it mattered to me. Anyway, I'm ranting now!

I started off using a hand pump and didn't really get on with it, so my m/w leant me an electric one, which was good to start with. But then my milk started dropping off and the pump stopped being quite so effective, so I started doing it by hand. That's what I stuck with and found worked best to me. I used to express about every 4 hours I think. Until it started dropping off and then I was doing it every 2 hours and getting up through the night as well, but it worked - I got it back to what it was previously.

Anyway, if you need any advice or support or whatever then please feel free to contact me. Not sure how much help I can be, but happy to try

Just to let u all know, my ds is almost 16 weeks and I am still expressing. I am going to keep it up after I return to work, He is nearly 16 lbs in weight and doing well.

thanx for all support and advice

Someone I know, I believe she's still expressing to feed twins, now 8 months old, who have almost never latched on (they do get a little formula, too). However much of a Brfeeding zealot I am I don't know if I could do that, myself.

Rosmum, you have obviously had some great advice from people who know what they are talking about (unlike me a non breastfeeder so far).

However I just thought I'd pick up on one of your earlier posts about returning to work as you have decided to carry on.

You mentioned about the problem of the environment in which you work and your lack of breaks etc. As a breastfeeding mother if you inform your company that you are breastfeeding you have certain rights which are outlined in the DTI booklet Maternity rights a guide for emplyers and employees. I strongly recommend you get hold of a copy of this booklet before you return. It covers things like your employer providing you with a place to express and store your milk and regular breaks in which to do so.

I'm going to attemp to put the link in to the website where you can download the booklet, hope it works!

\linkwww.dti.gov.uk/er/maternity.htm\Maternity Rights

It didn't work so copy and paste

www.dti.gov.uk/er/maternity.htm