How often would you expect a seven week old to be feeding?

[Athrawes]

I am feeding on demand my seven week old boy. I just wanted to know, to be able to look forward to, what the "routine" might be in a couple of weeks. People say that he will get more efficient at feeding, that the evening feeds will drop off...can anyone give me an idealised day?
At the moment i feed him every time he wakes up - independent of how long he has been asleep - an hour or twenty minutes. I reckon he is waking to feed?
Feeds take ages - during the day he gets fed when he wakes, drops off on the boob, has a cuddle, a play, fed again, asleep hopefully properly. I'd really like just to do one big efficient feed when he wakes up - it feels like he is toying with me! Sometimes I feed him and then go straight out for a walk with him in the sling just to get a break from the constant cow feeling. He then sleeps in the sling and wakes as soon as we get back, in twenty minutes, for a feed...
The evening is 6 till 10 constan drip drip feeding, snooze, nuzzle, wake up and play for five, feed again. I just swap from one breast to the other each time. My breasts are like prunes by 10pm when, for the last week, he has managed to fall asleep properly. But every evening i dread will it work this time?
Will there be a time when he does an efficient one hit feed, has a decent play time, looks tired and goes to bed?

Sorry I can't help but I sympathise and i'm watching this thread with interest because my 6.5 week DD is exactly the same.

She'll only sleep in the daytime if shes in transit either in the car or in her pram otherwise shes constantly feeding.

I think foolishly I believed all the pregnancy books that said at the 6 week mark all the hardest work is over and baby starts to feed fsster at more spaced out intervals and I'm feeling a bit disillusioned that this is not the case.

hi athrawes, well done on establishing bf! Ime you are definatly past the hardest part.

The not so great news is that there is no set routine that you can expect your baby to settle in to. He may find his own routine, and this may change over time. But there is not one set pattern for all babies, be they bf or ff.

7 weeks is still early days. Your ds still has a small stomach and needs to feed little and often. What,s more he still wants the closeness of being held by you. This is where your sling comes in. Mine saved my sanity in the early days! I know you can feed in some, but not in the one i had, but being able to potter around the house, or go for a walk with him close gave up both what we needed!

I also think this is a great thing about bf. Your baby can feed when he needs to, rather than when the clock dictates. And when if he is suddenly and unexpectedly hungry you aren't caught short, waiting half am hour for a kettle to cool...etc!

Some may suggest ff as an answer. I have nothing against ff, it is definatly better for some people. But please don't expect it to settle him in to a routine. I know some babies do slip in to an ff routine, but it is no guarantee. My ff friend is constantly clock watching, to ensure she has a freshly prepared, and therefore safe bottle ready for the next feed "due" only to fine her ds is not interested. He might then neck two lots at once before bed (and being unexpected this requires and expensive ready made carton. And the hope that there's a clean bottle ready). I guess what i'm trying to say is that all babies (or at least most...there's always one!) are unpredictable. At least with bf you are ready when they are!

I'm going to push the advanteges of bf to you one little bit more...because i don't think you would have come this far if you didn't want to. I'M really sorry if this seems heavy handed. You mention feeling like a cow. You are doing the right thing by getting out etc. Are there any bf groups near you you can go to? I know it's a cliche, but it won't be forever. Try and enjoy the snuggley bf time and mn at the same time Remember that the alternative is trying to occupy your ds while you wash, sterilise and make bottles. Judging each feed correctly (as they must be made up as needed) or having a hungry baby/wasted formula. Never being far from a kettle you can claim for half an hour. Worry over the quantity, timing, temperature and safe mixing of formula. Not to mention possible wind reflux etc associated with ff...

To give you a picture of where i'm at with ds six months. He is still ebf on demand, though we have started blw. Some days he feeds alot, others hardly any. But he now can handle himself better if starting to get hungry, i can normally buy at least half an hour if i need to. He averagely has about four feeds a day, about half am hour a time, though the evening feed is often longer. He wakes for one small feed most nights but we co sleep and now he can roll over it's virtually self service! He's a lovely smiley boy, trying desperatly to crawl so he can get at everything. When he does i'll probably long for the days he was happy in my arms, still, while i mned/read/ watched telly etc!

Sorry for the ramble! You are doing brilliantly!

ayjayjay i do remember it got easier around six weeks as lots of stuff came together iyswim. But when something says "your baby at six weeks" it should say "your baby at six weeks, or five, or seven, or perhaps even eight...but it will get there we promise" because there are no guarantees.

My advice would be to ignore put aside the book. They tend to reflect one view or experience. Follow your instinct. Mn is great for advice as you get a lot of different points of view. I've found it better than rl as i don't come from a bf back ground.

So don't give up hope, you will suddenly realise it isn't as hard as it used to be!

I found he developed a routine when I stopped always feeding him as soon as he woke (obviously if he wanted it he got it!, but I found he was crying for cuddles rather than a feed). So there was no schedule as such but it went play-feed-sleep-play-feed-sleep (a gradual process!), I found this hugely improved his sleeping habits as he wasn't waking hungry or being woken by hunger and fell asleep on a full belly.

bumping for you incase anyone has anything to offer!

Athrawes - I've seen you post before, you are having a rough time

My 9 week old DD2 now goes bout 2-3 hours between feeds now and at around 5 weeks I moved away from demand feeding (bf felt well established by this point) and now we are on a vague cycle of feed-play-sleep, feed-play-sleep IYSWIM.
She tends to be up about 1.5-2 hours between naps and if it has been 3 hours since she last fed I wake her to feed (love sleepy milky cuddles!) to try to stay roughly in the cycle.

I really sympathise with your awful evening, whilst DD2 isn't too bad my DD1 was an evening snacker and I was glued on the couch feeding and would just be praying for her to go to sleep. I literally used to beg her to just please go to sleep so I could too. It did get better though.

One of my proudest moments was after a particularly awful week of constant feeding I'd taken her to be weighed. She had put loads on and the health visitor grinned and said 'look what you've done!' She was right, I did that through hours of patient feeding, then more feeding and more feeding. Keep it up, it will get easier I promise. Just take each evening as it comes.

oh athrawes this is similar to what i've just posted about my nearly 6-week-old DS. it just feels consstant sometimes, especially the epic evening feed which in our case starts at 9-10pm and goes on to 2am! then we don't get up in the morning till 11am. am trying to bring it all back.

no real advice but sympathy!

Also no advice sorry (BF demand-fed DS is only 6 weeks) but much sympathy.

It may not be what you're asking, but I've been trying to work out myself if feeds become more efficient/regularly spaced/less frequent because that simply happens naturally as they get older - OR, if mums are, in various different ways, actually nudging their DC's into less demanding feeding patterns. I totally get that babies' stomachs get bigger, and supply should even out etc - so a pattern that's easier to cope with should materialise...but then I see a lot of mothers actively encouraging their babies into patterns and working to space out feeds...

So who knows. I'm trying to organise my thoughts so I can start a decent thread at some point about BF-ing expectations versus reality. After several epic and grim cluster feeds, I could cheerfully punch anyone who told me how convenient BF-ing was, how wonderfully bonding it is, how if I don't enjoy every minute of it, I need to be told I'm 'raising a baby not an inconvience' (but remember how convenient BF-ing is, right?)

I am finding some of it very rewarding (DS's weight gain, the fact he's thriving and clearly loving it!) - but I also feel I was given a very idealised picture of BF-ing before my DS was born.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack your thread - I just wanted to say, Sympathy to you, and I've gone off on one a bit. I'll be interested to see what replies you get, and I really hope they are useful to you.

wow barkfox, i'm really glad my post wasn't aimed at you then, or i might have been "cheerfully punched"

heh - don't worry moonfacemama - I know you were being encouraging - it's just that when I've been totally wiped out by a cluster feeding fretful'on/off' baby for hours on end, unable to get as far as the kitchen to make a cuppa, let alone leave the house, then stuff like 'isn't it wonderful that the baby feeds whenever he wants,it's so convenient' actually makes me personally feel very isolated and inadequate. Hence the frustration.

I also think stressing the inconvenience of ff backfires sometimes. Yes, there's boiling the kettle, waiting to make up feeds etc - but when I'm up against it, I think, oh, come on - it's not that hard, and there are cartons, I can afford them, and then the joy is that someone else could feed the baby while I have a fecking break for an hour!

Now I know that in some mum's eyes, not loving every single magical moment of BF-ing makes me a a selfish cow, etc etc - but I'm sorry, that's just not my experience, and sometimes, having someone say - 'yeah, it's bloody awful, isn't it' makes me feel better.

Don't get me wrong - I'm sold on the benefits of BF-ing for my baby, and as I say, it's very rewarding to see how well he's doing, AND how much the little gannet loves it. It's also getting easier at 6 weeks - I haven't fed formula and don't intend to, even if I fantasise about that one 'full baby' longer sleep at night. (yes, I know there are no guarantees - just happens everyone I know ff-ing has babies that sleep for longer, and god, that's such a temptation when I'm knackered).

Thread hijack over. Just wanted to explain myself.

Athrawes, it sounds to me as though you are doing brilliantly! I found bfing very challenging for the first 3 months of DD's life as she fed at least every 2 hours and each feed took 45 mins plus! I was just exhausted and considered giving up more than once! Thanks to Mumsnet however I persevered and we have made it to seven months.

Try not to beat yourself up about routines as they can take many months to establish. We have only been doing the whole 'feed, play, bed' thing for a few weeks and I too wondered when things would settle down into a more predictable routine. I think you just need to surrender yourself to it at the moment and enjoy being close to your baby (difficult when constantly knackered I know!). I found local breastfeeding support groups a great help as they give you the reassurance you need that you're doing everything right, which I'm sure you are .

Now DD has 5 breastfeeds a day and boy, am I glad I don't have to sterilise and prepare formula bottles every time! Believe me, you're doing great!

barkfox i agree with every word you say! couldn't have put it better myself!

emster30, we are not alone.... (I hope athrawes comes back , I felt maybe the end of a tether was being reached there - it's just utterly grim feeling like that).

barkfox I think you just articulated how I feel this morning.
Iy's 6.30am. I picked DS up to bring him through to his playmat (he's always supremely social after the last 'night feed' around 6am) and said " You fed ALL NIGHT and my side of the bed is covered in sick. I think I do not want a baby any more. I want a kitten."

Don't get me wrong, DS is lovely and I adore him. It's just that Oh crap I'm tired, and I don't know if it's the BFing or if it's having a 4 week old... but when you don't have anything to compare it to apart from the Telly Babies or the Mythical Schedule Babies, it feels like it's the BFing, y'know?

If it's any help to you, my dd fed 10-12 times a day at this age and not at regular intervals either and she was ff from 4 days old.

It will get better, but when you have a young baby it's so hard to imagine a future when things are different. Everyday seems to be a grind to get through. But you will get through it and it sounds like you are doing a great job.

I think it's perfectly ok to say that BFing is hard work, and there are bloody awful patches.

It never worked for me trying to space feeds, it just made DS yell and me resentful. Once I relaxed and just went with it I felt so much better.

Ladies hang in there, you are doing so well. I will give you only one piece of advice - throw away the books that tell you xyz should be happening at a certain time. Babies are all individual and they will do things on their own timetable not yours, and definitely not someone who wrote a book.

My experience was that the first 8/9 weeks were hellish, weeks 9-12 still felt hellish, and then suddenly when DS was 3 months old I realised that things had got a lot easier. He would feed for longer and so would feed less often, I had really got the hang of feeding so it was incredibly easy to go out and I didn't have to worry about how many feeds he might need while I was out.

The convenience aspect of BF really kicks in at around 3 months IME. Before that it can be hit and miss, but after that you really reap the benefits of all your hard work! The biggest thing for me was when it came to weaning. I just had to throw a banana and some cucumber sticks or a pot of chicken and pasta or something in my bag and I could be out for as long as I wanted. A couple of friends who FF'd found weaning a real PITA on top of carting bottle, cartons of formula etc around.

I remember it vividly and mine are now 6yo and 12yo - the 6-8 week old age is the hardest - you haven't slept for over a month, all the newborn honeymoon stage has ebbed and then they hit a growth spurt which means constant feeding.

Just wanted you all to know taht it does get better, you will get through this and you're doing an amazing thing so hang in there

Barkfox i really hope you don't think i was implying you are selfish, or that i wanted to make you feel isolated, inadequate or frustrated. I didn't actually use the phrase in quotes, but that is clearly how you have taken my post, and i am sorry if that's how it came across.

Yes it is bloody awful at times. That is why we are on this forum, to support others who are going through what we are or have. I guess we have different ways of dealing with difficulties, you would want someone to agree how awfull it is, if i were (back) in the op's position i would like to be reminded why i was putting myself through it.

I have to take you up on the notion that ff "is not that hard" though. There are current threads on here that show how hard ff is. Bfers don't have a premium on feeding problems.

Sorry for the hijack athrawes. I hope you are feeling better today.

Moonfacemama - yep, fine - I see where you're coming from. And Blackcurrants, me and my DP were saying yesterday, one positive DS has over a kitten is that at least we know where he's crapping, and don't have to move all the furniture to find it...

I do see too some problems FF-ers are having on this forum - again, for another thread really, but I am disturbed by how much difficulty they seem to be having because of lack of proper information and support, which seems very unfair on them. And I think there is every chance that when BF-ing is very hard, then I romanticise FF-ing (and it's good that someone like Schroeder can remind me that it might not be BF-ing, it might just be babies...). The grass is always greener, isn't it.

I just find the 'FF-ing is SO hard!' atttitude rings hollow sometimes. Surely it depends partly on personality. I see someone say 'oh, I couldn't even think about sterilising all those bottles!' - and think, well, I express milk so DP can feed it, which involves sterilising. It ain't that hard. If you can fill in a tax return, drive a car, remember to leave the house with tampax etc, I think sterilising bottles isn't going to be a massive test of organisational skills. Of course, it's a different kettle of fish if you have to do it for every feed, rather than the odd one, for sure. But it can also sound odd when someone offers up the difficulty of boiling a kettle to make formula against the exhaustion of a cluster feed, where you have no idea how much a baby is eating, and only you as a BF-ing mother can give them what they are asking for. So I wasn't at all saying FF-ers have it easy - at all - more that a lot of claims by pro BF-ers about how incredibly hard FF-ing is seem overstated to me.

Very useful comments here about the convenience issue kicking in later. I think a lot of pro-BF-ing advice and encouragement I was given pre-birth really skipped over this and made it sound like it was very convenient from the outset. Again, thoughts for another thread really.

My DS sleeps at 3 hourly intervals during the day and feeds then sleeps. However from around 5pm he feeds frantically til about 10pm - on and off the breast, getting frantic at times. I assume he is cluster feeding but it is bloody hard work.

I wonder when this cluster feeding ends?

I am in the breastfeeding is fecking hard camp..! My darling daughter is 8 weeks old now and it has got so much better i intend to continue. The first four/five weeks she was attached to my boob, up every 1 to 2 hurs to feed around the clock, then without having done anything different she suddenly slept 5 hours and contiued to do that every evening which was fab. I think she is now on a growth spurt as she is back to 2 hours...
i will continue, it is gettting better but it would have been much more helpful if I had known how hard it was before I started. I would still have done it but would have been more prepared.
It is rammed down our throats how important it is - and I agree - but there should be more honesty about wha it takes out of us.
however, i am holding on for when it gets better...any day now....

ps my daughter stopped those mad cluster feeds in the evening around 5 weeks and now just goes down from 8 or 9 for 4-6 hours (except last few days when reverted to short sleeps)

in retrospect I think the clue to how hard it was going to be was the fact there needs to be breastfeeding support lines.

If it were easy there would be no need for these.

I wish my antenatal instructors had been more honest about how hard it is. I would have still chosen to EBF but would have been better prepared.

I am also in the "breastfeeding is fecking hard" camp. I just happen to have recently been on holiday with a ff friend (her ds is 6m like mine) and seen first hand what a nightmare ff is if you try to do it reasonably safely and can't afford exclusive cartons.

please don't take my posts as trying to say bf is easy. It certainly isn't. I have been lucky to have a relivatly easy time, but even then it is still draining at times. But i have seen friends go through crap with bf, and go over to ff for good reason.

There are ff "helplines" also. Though apparently they aren't very helpfull!

Barkfox ime ff may know how much their dc's are eating, but this is rarely the "suggested" amount at the suggested time. Less means worry, more means preparing more formula on the fly.

fifitot how old is your DS?

My DS lost a lot of weight in the week after he was born and so he cluster fed every day until he was 6 weeks old when he suddenly stopped.

I think I had about a week's break where he only wanted 2-3 feeds in the evening and then we were back to the cluster feeding. IIRC it was on and off until 11-12 weeks.

I know it had stopped before that because I took DS to France for a week when he was 14 weeks and his feeds were quite spaced by then. Over the course of a meal in the evening I would usually only have to feed him once and then he would either sleep or just want to sit and have a look around at everyone. Then another long feed before bed and he was usually ok for 5-6 hours.
BFing was so great that trip though. I went with my Dad to do some house hunting, and before we went he was asking how much stuff I would need to take with me. I remember he asked me what I would need for feeding DS. I replied 'just my boobs Dad' It made life immensely easy.