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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Support thread for all parents with reflux babies...

997 replies

PosieParker · 18/08/2010 16:00

Just thought a pooling of ideas would be useful. Any ideas about meds, symptoms, coping strategies, things to make a baby quiet!!

Symptoms:

Arched back and crying/screaming after feeding
Fussy on/off breast or bottle
Frequent feeding
Little sleep
Constant crying/screaming

(please add)

Meds:

My memory is a little rose on this and I can't remember

Coping

SWING,
pushchair walks
accepting help
Sometimes putting your baby somewhere you can't hear them whilst you have a large gin cup of tea.

OP posts:
YogaMummy2B · 07/07/2011 10:28

Dinks I know how difficult it is to BF a baby with suspected reflux, I was in tears and knackered every day for 6 weeks and then started bottle feeding.
I wish I had persevered and got tough with GP to get meds sorted sooner. FF is not any easier than BFing and as Narmada said can make things worse.
It took well over an hour to feed my LO a bottle and she fussed like crazy and vomited a lot of it up all over me!!
She only started vomiting when I started FF.
She is now on 'milk free' formula but hates the taste so eats little and often but symptoms much better.
If I were you I would look into everything that Narmada suggested and in the mean time cut out dairy from your diet. Just watch out it is in EVERYTHING!! Inc. Wotsits & processed chicken!!
Hang in there, seriously I understand how difficult it is, it will get better & just think - you will loose the baby weight more quickly and be mega healthy without dairy. By the way it may take a couple of weeks of totally dairy free to notice a difference.
Good luck and keep chatting to us, especially if you are having a bad/tired day.
Also - if you can, head off to bed with your LO and try to get a little rest with them propped on your chest. If your LO is anything like mine that will be one of the only places they will sleep.

dinksdoes · 07/07/2011 13:31

thanks Narmada and Yoga, yes i did some further research and also found out that formula would not be the answer - maybe secretly i was hoping it would be as its just so horrible having her fuss when i feed and having to feed so often.

Her wieght gain is very good, she was over birth wgt by day 10 (her birth wgt was 8lb 7) shes now 9lb 5 and its day 24.

the symtoms she has are:
fussing towards the end of a feed
sick after- not always
hiccups and coughing after feed - hiccups all the time!
white tounge
smelly nappies that are just wet - poo is mustard colour
noisy after a feed - grunting/heavy breathing
feeding every 1-2hrs varies in length from 10 mins to 40 mins
not settling after feed
awake most of the time seems to have little 20 min cat naps!

she hasnt got any rash, a few little spots on her cheek at the mo but wouldnt say eczema and not mucus in poo or sore bum, only thing she has is heavy slightly chesty breathing but put that down to being uncomfortable with the reflux.

she hasnt been checked for tongue tie, but her wgt gain is good and had so many different midwives and hv checking latching on so kinda ruled that one out

shes only been on the gaviscon for 3 days so guess it may take a bit to kick in, and yes i will go get a syringe to administer it that way.

how long does this last for?
any tips on getting her out of feeding every 2hrs? is it cos her tummy can only take a small amount cos of the reflux?

i have not heard of oversupply, could you explin more please narmarda?

thankyou again, its so good to get some support!

narmada · 07/07/2011 15:38

Dinks, oversupply is where your breasts produce too much milk in effect - quite common. It's often associated with fast letdown. See this link.To be honest though her weight gain sounds spot on rather than super-fast, and as there is no greeny poo it's probably not this. However, some of what you describe does sound like it could possibly be related to having a forceful letdown. What do you think?

Some other ideas based on what you've said - it could well be reflux but here are a few other ideas:

The frequent feeding every 1-2 hours, well, probably not what what you want to hear but that sort of frequency is completely normal for a 4 week old bf baby. You can get the impression from baby books that they 'should' be going 3 hours between feeds but this is very definitely not the norm and not particularly desirable for the establishment of your milk supply in any case. Typically a baby of that age would feed at least 8-12 times in 24 hours, and often considerably more than this. Does she do any longer stints at night, sleep-wise?

Re fussing at the end of a feed - could she be full? Some babies feed extremely quickly right from the get-go, particularly if you've got an overactive letdown. My DS for example only ever fed for 5 minutes and resisted all attempts to put him back on the breast after he'd finished. Sometimes babies just want a bit of sucking time and don't necessarily want any more milk at the end of the feed. What happens if you let her suck on your little finger when she starts fussing? Alternatively, does she want to be swapped to the other side for a faster flow? - some babies get peeved when they have to work harder for their milk!

White tongue can be just milk residue, although it can also be reflux-related.

When you say that she has smelly nappies do you mean her wee smells unusual? If so I think that's something to mention to the GP perhaps. I think it's very unusal for babies this small to have wee infections but nevertheless worth checking with HV or GP. Wee in disposable nappies can have a bit of an odd smell - a bit like bovril I reckon (sorry if TMI).

Again, the catnaps could be just how your baby's wired - some just only have short sleeps unfortunately (I've had two of these babies). Or, it oculd be reflux or something else making her unsettled. It's so hard to tell but as a mum you'll have a powerful instinct as to whether something's wrong or not. Does she sleep longer if you hold her?

Gaviscon, if it's going to work, should work pretty much instantaneously. There's no need to wait two weeks for it to do something. It's not systemically absorbed, it merely works as a physical barrier to prevent the stomach contents re-emerging from the stomach.

I would second cutting out the dairy thing, it's got to be worth a try. A couple fo weeks should be enough to establish whether that's contributing to her unsettledness or not.

narmada · 07/07/2011 15:53

dinks also, re tongue tie, some babies with a tie put on weight normally owing to an abundant milk supply. Other signs to look for include clicking noises while feeding, 'slipping' off the breast while feeding and having to be re-latched, a tongue that doesn't seem able to extend over the bottom gum line.

daisylulu · 07/07/2011 18:58

Hi ladies

Quick update - gp now prescribed nutrimagen alongside domperidone and omeprezole.

J seems to be taking the bottle well but I am getting very worried we may be making things worse. I know I'm prob being irrational but tonight we had projectile vomiting. I'm now panicking that J is being sick because the nutramigen is so thin and it's going to make things worse rather than better. Can anyone reassure me with how long it takes to see improvement on new formula? She only started it today. I think my worry is that if she has classic reflux rather than cmpi then the new formula is going to be worse than aptimal. I think I may just not be thinking straight today and the screaming has got to me!

Thanks

daisylulu · 07/07/2011 18:59

Ps she has been projectile vomiting for last few days before we even started on nutramigen

dinksdoes · 07/07/2011 23:06

narmada, thankyou for your advice! its actually very reasurring to hear that feeding every 1-2 hrs is normal for my 4 week old. yes the books say 3-4hrs and then they should fall asleep happily!

Im not sure about fast let-down, will look into it, but the milks not squirting out of me like a shower.

she goes 1-2hrs all of the time, no longer stints at night,:(

Being full did cross my mind, but HV just seemed to put it down to reflux, however she's been on the gaviscon since tuesday afternoon and has had a very fussy day today. Just fed her for about 45 mins, 30 on one breast and 15 on the other, fussed on both, so spose could be full. She got quite upset and does keep coming off the boob and has to be re-latched on, kicks her legs and thrashes about, head butts the boob and sometimes retches when the nipple finally gets back in her mouth.

The fussing has only started the last couple of weeks, got over thrush in the first few days and now have this!

Not sure if she sleeps for longer on me or partner as to be honest I let her sleep for a bit on me then put her back in her moses basket to get some sleep myself!

will keep going with the gaviscon for a little longer then go off dairy myself to check this. Will a HV be able to check for tongue tie?

ooh its so tricky, if only they could tell us what was wrong!

YogaMummy2B · 07/07/2011 23:11

Daisy sounds to me like your LO might have a bit of a system overload with the milk, this happened to my DD and once she was on the new stuff a few days it started to settle. I now also add carabel to it to thicken it up a bit and this combination has pretty much stopped any vomiting.
It will be OK in a few days and by the end of 2 weeks you should have a fair idea if there is an issue with CMPI. Keep a behaviour diary to track symptoms etc and it will help you remember a little more clearly.

YogaMummy2B · 07/07/2011 23:18

Dinks BFing pattern does seem fairly normal for 4 weeks.
Does your LO scream blue murder after a feed?
My LO pretty much cried all the time unless latched on and would go on comfort suck, fall asleep & then cry if moved/put down.
Does your LO get all milk drunk and happy after a feed? Again my LO rarely stopped fussing long enough to feed properly.

daisylulu · 08/07/2011 04:35

Thanks yoga will stick with it and reasess in 2 weeks. (well hopefully will last 2 weeks!) I've used carobel in past and did think of trying to thicken milk but it made J very constipated so maybe I'll just thicken every other feed.

We are off tomorrow (well actually today now I look at time) to visit the inlaws in Wales. Change of formula, change of meds,change of scenery and change of routine along with 4 hour drive is a complete recipe for disaster - I did try to warn DH but he didn't listen to me. Will update you with how we are getting along when we are back on Monday. Wish us luck because I think we are going to need it!!!

Loopymumsy · 08/07/2011 20:12

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dinksdoes · 08/07/2011 22:26

Thanks Yoga for agian saying the feeding is normal, went to a moter and baby group today and others all said the same, its nice to know im not the only one!

Yes she screams and gets upset during feeding and after, seems contented for about a minute then gets very upset and cant be consolled. fed her at 7 for an hour then again at 8.30, she has not settled since, luckily dp is here keeping her upright,but no signs of sleeping, looks like another feed!

sometimes not sure if she is actually drinking or comfort sucking, may try a dummy next week - any advice on reflux/dummies? will it help? - still not 100% sure that it is reflux, the gaviscon certainly hasnt done anything, but shes not a happy bunny when feeding atall :(

YogaMummy2B · 08/07/2011 23:02

As soon as I gave my LO a dummy you could see her whole body relax, she did a lot of comfort sucking and I guess the dummy was sweet relief without having to drink BM which was adding to the issue a little.
Now, very controversial thing I am about to say but if I had just fed her and less than an hour later she wanted fed again and she latched on and started comfort sucking, flutter sucking I would take her off and give her a dummy. It seemed to help things a little. However I did ensure that she didn't want a feed first & I'm not saying it would work for everyone. There came a point at 5 weeks or so that I thought she can't need to be latched on 24/7! It really was that bad mind you!
So a dummy may work for you.
It does sound like you are starting to build a reflux picture!

Loopy it does sound like it - but so many things sound like it! Check out Narmada's post to Dinks above, that covers a lot of things that could cause reflux like symptoms. If you have ruled out all other possibilities get down to your GP and discuss a course of action. If you look on the - crying over split milk reflux website it gives great diagnosis pathways which may help with a quicker remedy!

narmada · 09/07/2011 16:41

Dinksdoes :(

Does she scream at every feed? Or is it only in the evenings? Again, just to say, it's totally normal for tiny babies not to settle in the evenings, and want to be on the boob constantly - it's called cluster feeding. Often this ends at around 10-11 pm, later if you're unlucky. Around the 2-3 month mark many babies show signs of giving up on the cluster feeding and start naturally adopting an earlier bedtime.

If she's screaming during and after every feed, then that's perhaps not strictly 'normal' as such and maybe there ^is% something like reflux going on.

loopysmummy sounds like you're having some tricky times, could indeed be reflux. Dr Google is a wonderful thing!

dinksdoes · 09/07/2011 17:19

Hi again narmada, she screams on every feed, day and night, morning and evening, only during and after feeds. other times she is alert and happy.
can feed with lots of fuss, then seems to chill out and come off boob, but then 2 mins later lets out an almighty yell. often sicks up quite a large amount of milk, then wants more! sometimes i think shes over eating? but does get very upset, maybe a dummy would comfort her, very wary about giving her a dummy, but am at the stage i want to give anything ago, poor little one.
its very hard!

Loopymumsy · 09/07/2011 19:57

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JoEW · 09/07/2011 20:27

I feel so guilty that I am never on this thread but with a few moments to read I have this to say:

Loopy I think this sounds like reflux to me.

Re dummys, I just don't know what I would do without one. C loves his and it helps so much when he is in distress but wants to suck. If I am trying to feed him and he's screaming and coming off the bottle I will let him suck the dummy for ten mins or so and it often calms him enough to get him feeding again. I would just get involved, if you think it will help comfort. Saying that, C has always been bottle fed as was born at 32 weeks and never established breast-feeding. He is now 100% formula, though was EBF till three months. I think the dummy gives him a comfort that he never got from BF.

Finally, I am now on Losec tablets. I'm giving him half a 10mg tablet, dissolved in water in a syringe (C was always silent reflux, doesn't vom much but screams in pain and won't feed). It seems to work well but wear off by the evening. I'm wondering about giving him another dose in the evening, does anyone else do this with Losec? My doctor is very helpful but she doesn't really understand reflux and is only prescribing Losec because I've asked her for it.

Hope everyone and their lovely babies have a good night.

JoEW · 09/07/2011 20:30

PS - Loopy C is just dandy at night, feeds well and goes to sleep, it's the daytime where he really struggles. I asked my HV about it and she said that sometimes they are just more relaxed and the reflux doesn't kick in. Seems to be the case with mine.

Loopymumsy · 10/07/2011 07:17

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nuttysquirrel · 10/07/2011 09:16

Hi folks, just thought I would post a quick thank you to you all on this thread. I have lurked on it for the last 11 weeks since DS2 was born. I don't know what I would have done without it, it not only gave me the confidence to diagnose DS as having reflux (confirmed by the medical profession) but also provided a link which suggested cutting out dairy for 2 weeks, just when we were starting down the medicalised route with gaviscon.

I don't think DSs reflux is as severe as some cases but going dairy free has had miraculous results in that I now have a slightly sicky but essentially happy baby. When I slip up (I had a yoghurt marinaded chicken at a BBQ 2 days ago.....ooopps) boy do I realise how much better DS is when I am off the dairy. We are off Gaviscon most of the time and I have as a by-product lost a bit of weight (much needed!). Miss the blue cheese though!

Loopymumsy · 12/07/2011 20:42

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narmada · 12/07/2011 20:49

dairy free might take up to 2 weeks to show results - or it might be quite quick, loopysmummy. No harm in trying gaviscon although I guess if you do both at same time and things improve, you might not know which thing is making the difference. Gaviscon can cause constipation, just to warn you. I think for babies under 5 kg or something you are supposed to use one sachet per feed but you can only use 6 per day...which is prob nowhere near enough if you're BF. So I guess I would just pick the times of day when she seems worst - I would hazard a guess that she probably takes in a fair bit of milk volume wise in the morning so I would def use some then. HOpe it works, and that the BFCs have some suggestions for you.

As to how long gaviscon should take t o work, well, it should be fairly instant really - it's not systemically absorbed and just forms a floating 'raft' over the stomach contents to keep the milk in the stomach. If it is reflux and there is acid erosion of the oesophagus theoretically this may take a while to heal but frankly if there's oesophagitis present gaviscon isn't going to cut it anyway! What I'm saying I suppose is if it doesn't seem to do anything inside a week maximum, and dairy free's not showing any results either, then go back to the docs for further advice.

Loopymumsy · 12/07/2011 20:56

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bessie26 · 13/07/2011 21:07

Hello, may I join you? I've only just found this thread & am working my way through it but it could take me some time!

I think DD2 (12wks) is suffering with reflux. Can I ask if you agree with me before I ask you any more questions?!

I've had to keep her upright for 20mins after each feed for ages otherwise she wouldn't settle in her cot (I have recently increased this to 30mins)
Often, when I pick her up after being unsettled her breathing will sound a bit wet (IYKWIM?) & she'll have a snotty nose & sometimes coughs too. (the other day I pulled a white bogey out of her nose!)
About 4 weeks ago her poos changed from bright yellow to greenish & a more watery.
About 3 weeks ago she went from only waking once in the night to waking every 45mins/1.5hrs
Around the same time she started posseting more and fussing during feeds (ebf)

Do you think it sounds like reflux? Or could it be something else?

YogaMummy2B · 13/07/2011 23:46

Hi Bessie I am sure one of the more experienced reflux mums will be along soon to help with your queries.
In the mean time - have you tried eliminating dairy produce from your diet to see if this helps? This could take a few weeks to resolve issues if it is the cause.
It sounds a little refluxy but not crazy severe. Is there any screaming/crying after eating?

Hi Nutty glad things are looking up for you, this thread is great isn't it?