Breastfeeding despair

[Gherkinsmummy]

Really low tonight and wondering whether to just give up and FF...

DS is six weeks on Thursday and has never really taken the breast - he was a forceps delivery so we had no skin to skin at birth and then was given formula in hospital partly due to being jaundiced. When we came home I went to bed with him for days drank mothers helper tea and managed to keep my milk supply up by expressing, but apart from a few cursory feeds using shields never really got DS to take the breast. Finally he was diagnosed as tongue tied and had the snip yesterday. I had very high hopes that this would be the breakthrough but though he initially took the breast after ten minutes he came off and screamed until given a bottle. Since we came home he has refused the breast at every feed and I've had to bottle feed him.

I feel like I'm fighting my son at every feed, I'm more and more tired and feel like he hates me. My partner is also increasingly fed up with both of us; he supports me breastfeeding but hates seeing me and the baby constantly upset and stressed.

I really don't know what to do next and am so tempted just to give up.... it seems easier for everyone. If anyone has any thoughts/advice, I'd be so grateful.

Well done, you've done brilliantly to get this far and yes, it is exhausting.

I had similar issues to you and in the end I decided to FF. I felt like a complete and utter failure and I'm sure it contributed to my PND. I felt like I wasn't bonding with my baby and my 6 weeks of mastitis made it difficult to hold my baby. I felt very isolated, I was the only one having problems and I felt like a freak.

Your son doesn't hate you, he's just tired and frustrated. Whatever you decided he won't hate you either. Happier mummy = happier baby. Happier baby = happier mummy and so the cycle goes on.

My DD is now 2 and she is beautiful, very health and very bright. FF has not harmed her in anyway. I did my best but unfortunately BF was not for up and it was not easy to give up. Everyone will say how wonderful you are for BF but no one tells you what a good job you're doing if you decide to FF. BUT I can assure you whatever you do, YOU ARE A GOOD MOTHER!

You will get through this stage and I really empathize with your situation.

x

:( :(
Sounds like you need the chance to talk over all your options with someone who will listen and not try to sway you one way or the other.

It's hard to guage from what you say as there is not enough info in your post, but my guess would be that you will need to work intensively on your milk supply to ensure your baby is rewarded for staying on the breast. In fact, the 10 mins you had yesterday after the tongue tie snip is fantastic - it would have been incredible (ie almost impossible!) if your issues had disappeared straight away, after six weeks of difficulties.

Fighting at the breast is counter-productive, and makes it less likely you and your baby will return to full bf.

Instead, one option would be to work on your milk supply by expressing at least 8 times in 24 hours which is the only way to build up and maintain a breastmilk supply in the absence of an effectively-feeding baby. It is very, very hard to keep this up and I guess that you did not manage to do this in the six weeks since the birth...it may be that now your supply is right down and it's this that is making your baby unwilling to stay on the breast and come to it often (though the fighting increases this as well).

Without more info it's hard to be sure, but I do think it's likely to be that to retain your choice to bf, you will need to start a regime of frequent, effective expresssing - with lots of skin to skin and cuddles with your baby that don't involve trying to get him on the breast. Leave it to him to decide how and when (he may just take it anyway) and take the stress of 'he has to latch on!!' away from both of you while you repair your milk supply.

I hope this helps - any of the bf helplines would be a good chance to talk things through.

Thank you both for your kind replies. This morning after expressing I put DS on my lap and just sat and chatted to him so he wouldn't associate lying in my lap with being forced onto the breast. He had fed, so was relaxed, and started rooting, so I got my breast out and let him try to latch on without the shields and with no pressure. He seemed a lot happier about this so I'll try it again after every feed and carry on expressing, and go to a breastfeeding cafe tomorrow.

I still really want to breastfeed but not at the expense of my family's sanity! I have flat nipples and that combined with the tongue tie made things tricky. I try to express at least 4 times a day but have only once got more than 150 ml, it's usually more like 50.

Still, baby steps! Will keep trying.

Gherkins, I am SO PLEASED that your latest post suggests that you are having a better day of breastfeeding.

I don't have advice, just support. I found breastfeeding incredibly difficult to begin with and felt totally distressed and almost traumatised by the whole thing. I remember screaming at my DH, and my daughter screaming at me, and God it was just awful. We also started on formula at birth as DD was prem; I have one scarred breast and couldn't feed properly on that side (she wouldn't latch), she kept losing weight. I had to use a shield and everyone gave me dire warnings about it messing up my supply. I was at the end of my tether, hated feeding her, wanted to give her back... then slowly it started falling into place. DD started getting better at latching, I started ignoring dire warnings (still use a shield and am super-productive on that side), and I got more confident that she was getting enough.

Partly it's just them getting older and getting better at it. Now, it's brilliant - cheap, convenient, cuddly, I love it.

Now it may not work out for you, and if it doesn't, make a promise to yourself that you will not beat yourself up - look how hard you have tried.

You also might find you have a good feed then a bad feed, etc etc. In the early days my mood was totally dictated by the last feed!

But it might work out - keep expressing and expressing and expressing - and if it does, that's fantastic. Either way, good luck, and well done for getting this far. Let us know how you get on!

Sounds a good idea - nice relaxed chats and cuddles rather than struggles :)

4 times a day expressing is prob not enough, though, sorry :( :(

Unless he is feeding well several times a day, then you will need to make up the shortfall by expressing.

It's a bore and time consuming but it will not last forever.

Are you expressing or feeding at night? If your LO isn't bfing at night, you might need one night express to keep supply up. Not that I'm an expert - haven't yet done it - but that's what I understand from reading loads about expressing.

Not in the middle of the night but after the 5 am feed. This is usually when I manage to get a good quantity of milk. Tiktok, message received about expressing - at the moment we are giving him EBM then topping up with formula.

Right, back to the sofa with my cardigan open, DS on my tummy and a Bette Davis film on the dvd player.

japhrimel - you're right. Expressing at night is really, really important, unforch!

Enjoy the film, gherkin :)

So Tiktok do I need to go back to expressing every time I feed him?

sounds like things are on the up. Hurrah - you are doing brilliantly!

I could defo have written your post 20weeks ago. Almost all of the same ishoos you describe (and a couple of different ones because clearly god hates me!).

Anyhow to give you hope- it got loads easier from about 14weeks but post tongue tie snip at 7weeks it did take a few weeks for DD to get the hang of her new tongue. My supply defo increased a bit by itself because DD was finally able to extract more milk so it boosted supply. Keep pumping as much as you can- I hired a hospital grade double breast pump from NCT and that made everything loads and loads faster. I also gave her some of the top ups in a medela at breast supplementer- faffy but it meant by about 16weeks she was predominantly breastfed with just a formula bottle at bedtime. Also bizarrely DD always latched best in the bath so we used to have lots of feeding sessions in the bath!

Stick at it as much as you can- I decided for us mixed feeding was the best of both worlds (apart from the virgin gut theory- but yannoo) and whatever breast milk you can give your LO is better than none.

Good luck!

gherkins - you need to have your milk production line stimulated at least 8 x in 24 hrs inc at night....rough rule of thumb...to build up and maintain a milk supply, and this means expressing if the baby is not bf. If baby gherkin is bf effectively on both breasts that amount of time then you prob don't need to do any expressing.

If your situation is between those two ends of the spectrum, then it's a judgement call on how often to express - could be a call to one of the bf helplines would help you work it out?

Thank you again - this really gives me hope. I'll look into hiring a pump from the nct. At the moment DS is fast asleep on my chest - he's so cuddly! There's no danger of him not gaining enough weight - he's a complete gannet with his bottle.

This is something I have used and seen work (could be coincedence of course...).

www.lactationconsultant.info/rebirth.html

oooh, pumpwise, I hired a hospital grade pump from Medela when I was trying to stimulate supply and expressing after every feed. No point messing around. Medela are expensive but brilliant, will deliver the next day, and pumps are top-notch. Sorry, I sound like I am selling for them but I am not! medela.co.uk I think.

www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com/shop/hire-services/breast-pump-hire

I used the elite while DD was in NICU and then hired it again. I did also use the SMB but that was a bit scary!

Honestly hospital grade is the way to go- what would take me 30+mins with Medela swing would take me ten with hospital grade- I hired mine for 3months in the end until breastfeeding was back on track.

I would pump after every feed and do a "power pump" (google it on kellymom) every day or so too.

That's very interesting - I have the swing but have noticed the loss of suction. Will look into hiring a hospital grade pump - sure it will be easier on mynpoor boobs too!