Suck, Suck, Suck, STRUGGLE... flow too fast or too slow?

[blackcurrants]

DS is 3 days old and I've already had masses of help with my 3 day blues. My milk came in today and it's been an educational day!

He will do an opening volley of sucks, hard and eager, and then after five or six at most he will struggle and try to pull off and fight to latch back on and generally shake his head and go nuts at the breast. (Oh the fist-flailing and being kicked in the other breast by his feet is a delightful feature of this experience, too). If I hold his head securely (cross-cradle) I can sometimes persuade him not to struggle off, specially if I compress the breast with the other hand. Then he will feed for maybe 10 minutes max before falling asleep - and that's a good feed.

It's when he's absolutely determined to fight from almost the moment he gets on the breast that I start to freak out and think he is starving. Because breast compressions will persuade him to stay on the breast and not struggle, I think he's eager for a faster flow, rather than choking on oversupply. Has anyone got any tips for what I can do to match his suck-demand, other than compressing which is not always enough?

Also, feel free to tell me that by tomorrow/the next day my supply will be CRAZY fast and wonderful, and he'll be happy with the speed, and we'll all dance off into the sunset. That would be lovely (and I'll probably still have another question then!)

Thanks again for your support yesterday. I can't afford to get a lactation consultant this month, and my lovely local LLL meeting isn't until the 11th Aug. I really appreciate people taking time to give me their advice!

Oh dear. I just thought: the fact that he's drank from a bottle a few times is going to make him even more frustrated with my slower milk flow, isn't it?

Why did he have a bottle? I would ditch the bottles and spend a day in bed feeding him whenever he wants (if possible!).

You can get a BF counsellor to see you for free - whereabouts do you live? Try ringing the LLL line for help over the phone?

He sounds like my DD2 and it was because my letdown was too fast and I have an over supply. She sucks to get let down then pull off and struggles as she can't cope with the speed of the flow and can't make it stop. I have learnt to let her suck until letdown and then unlatch her and let the milk drip down into a muslin for a few minutes and then latch DD2 back on and she is much happier. The bottle will also affect your supply - you need him to feed little and often to keep your supply up.

Have a look on kellymom or give one of the BF helplines a call.

Yes definitely ditch the bottles if you think it's confusing him.

Just persevere, you are right that your supply will come up to meet his demand, you just need to keep him at the breast as much as possible. I found that DS broke latch less often in rugby ball hold, partly because he could look at me I think rather than my armpit!

Hang in there!

He had bottles twice in hospital (2 night stay) and once on coming home, basically when we found a uric crystal- nappy and panicked that we were dehydrating him now my milk's come in (with a vengeance!) I have been very brave and ditched the bottle. Ok, I'm going to keep him at the breast all day today and try to persuade him that he loves it.

I'd kind of love it to be oversupply, oops but I think it's too slow for him rather than too fast, because when he pulls off there's never any drip... am just going to spend today with my top off, and we'll work it out together I suppose!

I'm in America, so will have to find alternative BF helplines. The LLL people in my area were lovely but none of the leaders picked up their phones yesterday (probably for the best, as I was crying too much to talk ). There might be a national helpline though. I'll look into it - after this feed!

Still look at kellymom - there are also suggestions for slow letdown too - [http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html here]] about half way down the page.

You are doing well - lots of skin to skin and resting in bed together will help. Keep up your drinks and chocolate too

I don't think dripping nips is a sign of over supply! I speak from experience - the only time I drip is just after letdown or if the other nipple is exposed when DS is feeding. Yet my supply is incredible (it can shoot across the room if I hand express )

Also the early weeks are spent feeding loads as the baby needs to stimulate milk production. I remember DS wouldn't actually latch off in the first few weeks a lot of the time - I had to take him off after 2 hours as I had no idea if he was getting anything. He had a bad latch though which I didn't realise at first - has your DS got a good mouthful of nipple and aurolea (sp??)?

Ooh good plan! We're out of chocolate, that's clearly what's wrong here. . .
I'm making this today's project, just keep on bringing him to the breast, settling him if he fights it, offering it again. I will try to keep breathing, remember he's not starving, and tell myself it's just for today, and tomorrow he'll work it out.

Just one day. I can manage that. If breastfeeding is all like this I can't manage it at ALL, but I can manage one more day like this. [stiff upper lip emoticon]

blackcurrants - BF isn't all like this at all, I promise. Be kind to yourself for the first 10-days/2 weeks though. It's a new skill for you and for DS, you wouldn't expect to be expert at many things after only 4/5 days

You are doing a great job and you will get there. It will get easier very soon

What they said.

I'm trying to remember, but honestly I didn't have any idea of what was normal and what wasn't in those first few days (and I was arrogant and just assumed that whatever I was doing, was right) so if we'd had what you're describing I've forgotten.

And I say that because, I was right. As long as he's wetting/pooing regularly (and I gather he is) it's probably fine. So, honestly, slow flow, fast flow, either way you two are going to figure this out.

Of COURSE it's not all like this. Honey, your son wasn't even born four days ago, and you weren't even a mom four days ago. Christ, if nature was so unforgiving as to require us to get it perfectly right, sight unseen, this fasrt, we'd have died out by now. It is so much easier soon, it is exponentially easier, you won't believe how fast it is.

E.G.: You said in your other thread that the latch is good and it's not even that painful anymore - do you realise that is extraordinary? I had a brilliant easy breastfeeding experience, and I had a friend whoser child was born within a few weeks of mine who had the same, and we both still agreed that for the first few weeks you wanted to bite down on a stick to bear the pain until the nipples toughened up.

You, blackcurrants, are doing astoundingly well. Yes, probably the bottles confused him. As I said before - memory of a goldfish, now the milk's come in ditch the bottles and it'll all be the same in a couple of days. You two are learning each other, it takes a while. Yes, I know, instinctual natural primal blah blah etc. All of that is true in the sense that your body knows what it's doing and you can do this. But that terminology glosses over the fact that nature and primate instinct are messy, inefficient and have a huge learning curve built in.

You're doing great. Honestly I promise you are.

[lip wobble]

Thank you all so much. After I posted the last bit at 5am, I instigated the Plan For The Day, which is that I offer him a feed every time he asks for it, put him down somewhere to snooze every time he drops off, soothe him every time he gets grumpy, and lie down myself at any point where I possibly can.

We've had four awesomely better-than-yesterday feeds in the intervening six hours, and he's calmer, and I'm calmer, and he's feeding for 10-20 minutes then dropping off for 40, rather than feeding for 2 then screaming for 20....

god I feel like a whole new woman!
Thank you again for the reassurance. Today I'm actually loving having a baby rather than panicking about it. He smells so good!

That's great blackcurrant! Glad to hear you're feeling better

YAY Blackcurrants and babyberry - enjoy your time getting to know each other. I used this first few days in bed to learn every little part of my new little girl I snuffled her snufflely bits and just enjoyed her. Try and do the same, soon he will be feeding like a pro and you will both get busy - him growing and investigating and you being a mum and this will feel a lifetime ago.

Great news, blackcurrants. Enjoy your lovely new DS!

blackcurrants that sounds a lovely Plan For The Day. I will gently suggest that it remains your Plan for some Days to come

Enjoy the sniffing