Have I ruined this already?

[blackcurrants]

Warning: third day with newborn DS - weepy insecure post!

DS born at a lovely 9lbs on Wednesday at lunchtime. I had been to LLL meetings in advance, watched dvds, read "the Food of Love" and "the politics of Breastfeeding", hung out with BF mums and asked advice - I really, really want to breastfeed him, for lots of reasons. Now I just need some reassurance that my milk WILL come in, and we WILL make it, because right now I feel so wobbly....

I just gave him nearly 200ml of formula after finding a uric crystal (looks like a dab of blood in the nappy - I already found one in hospital but that was Thursday, then the nice nurse said it was a sign he'd had wee in his bladder a bit too long, and I was to feed him as much as possible so that he didn't get dehydrated. Well, he's fed HEAPS since then, and they let him go from hospital yesterday mid-morning saying he was in great shape. I was happy enough with my latch having got lots of help in hospital, but since I came home I couldn't get him to feed without fussing for long enough to feed. He just scarfed down the formula and has stopped crying and chewing on his fists for the first time since... I brought him home at lunchtime. And it's 5.30am here, and I'm sitting here, with my contented little baby, wanting to sob and scream and cry.
I WANT TO BREASTFEED! But while he'll snuggle up skin-to-skin, and he'll suck colostrum for hours on end, there comes a point where he pulls off and screams a bit more, or chews his hands, and then works himself up to a frantic pitch,and I'm scared it is because he's hungry and there's not enough colostrum for him, or it's coming too slowly. Or so I think, in my panicked imagination. And then DH calms him, and he sleeps a bit, and we say "ok, well, he's obviously not STARVING then, it'll be alright..." and then I feed him a bit when he wakes, and teh whole cycle begins again. My nipples are ok and the hospital lactation consultant and 3 other breastfeeding support people there helped me latch on and told me it looks good (and it doesn't hurt that much any more). But it's it's hot here, and I'm so scared of dehydrating/starving him, and finding another uric crystal totally freaked me out and then I gave him formula, and he's done that 'milk-drunk' contented face for the first time in his life and now I feel like I've been starving him since Tuesday and depriving him and...

oh god I can't stop crying. For the first time in a while, DS is calm and happy and I'm the one sobbing my heart out.

I had been telling myself that it would all be ok when my milk came in because then I would know that he was not dehydrated or whatever. Finding that little bloody smear in the nappy freaked me out. And now I'm scared that because he's had a bottle I will NEVER get my milk to come in and also he'll hate breastfeeding cos it will be too hard......

Sorry this is so long. Anyone got any words of reassurance for a weepy new mum?

I was in exactly the same position when my DD was born, except I was sobbing over the steriliser as I hadn't discovered mumsnet! All I will say is that this sounds really normal to me now as a few of my friends went through the same just noone talks about it. My DD also had a bottle but it didn't stop my milk coming in. The constant feeding and crying was exactly the same and I felt awful. I want to reassure you that you haven't done yourself or your lovely DS any harm. Maybe talk to your midwife or someone like La Leche who can reassure you further. My midwife likened the feeding and desperate fussing as DD just putting her order in so the milkman would come.
Congratulations and enjoy a lovely snuggle with your newborn.

Oh bless you, you poor thing.

First - congratulations.

Second - you have not ruined it.

Third - your milk will come in any time now, honestly it will.

Just keep putting him to the breast for as long as he will stay there, don't worry about the bottle, you have done it and tbh if he was that dehydrated then it was probably the right thing to do. Just keep feeding, keep yourself hydrated and rested and everything will be fine.

Have a ((((hug)))

I reckon with my dd1 it took a good month to really get into th whole breastfeeding thing, but from then on in it was easy (and much easier 2nd time around).

Ask your midwife/HV for advice...your milk is coming and then hopefully it will be easier

Breastfeeding is not an easy option to start with

Blackcurrants! Congratulations, I didn't know you'd had him! How exciting. What's his name, are you wiling to share?

NOW. You have not ruined anything at all. Day 3 is HELL. And it's classically the day that the hormones hit - I know it feels bigger and more significant than that, but it's honestly the standard time for a crash. So just let yourself cry (but stay hydrated!) and keep cuddling your sweet son, and it will all be alright.

Now.

Firstly, you have NOT been starving him. They all lose some weight in the first few days, and fuss, and clusterfeed, and it sucks for you, but he's fine and you've done nothing wrong.

Secondly, if he's been clusterfeeding for hours and suckling colostrum, then you haven't ruined your supply from one bottle. If he doesn't ask again in the next 3ish hours, though, which he might not because 7oz is a fair bit of formula at that age, I'd consider expressing a bit to keep things up. And just make sure you offer the breast over and over - at this age they've the memories of goldfish, frankly, he'll soon accept that as the norm again.

Thirdly, don't worry about the temperature, your body wiull adjust the breastmilk to match. My E was born at the beginning of an Australian heatwave, so I do understand. Has he been having wet/poopy diapers?

Fourthly, do you have any follow-up care? Does a midwife or someone come out to visit over there? If not, I suggest booking a followup at a clinic just to reassure yourself about the whole thing, whether he's lost a lot of weight or not, etc.

Fifthly, it will be okay. It will be okay.

You've already been given fantastic advice.

But I just wanted to pass you a big - the first few weeks are so so difficult, but you're doing great!

Don't worry, I had a similar thing. Had to supplement with formula at least once a day for 2 weeks. Just make sure you give the formula only after 45 min-1 hour (or more) of suckling as the suckling is what encourages the milk to flow. I used to BF till DD got impatient and upset with being still hungry (usually after 1-2 hours) then gave her 40-100mls for formula so that she can sleep. Good luck!

You haven't ruined it, you are both figuring out how the whole thing works.

They cry because they are babies and it all freaky as hell being out of their nice warm cocoon.

Get your gear off and DS's gear off and GO. TO. BED.

For both my DS's my milk has come in on Day 5. It is fine, they don't need formula he just needs to feed feed feed feed.

Then gradually reduce the formula given each day if you can so that you are finally EBF.

Thank you everyone, for your fab advice and support.

[awash with kleenex emoticon]

So the good news is: wow, milk has arrived. The less good news is that DS (He's called Ben) won't wake up to suck any of it. I've stripped him down to a nappy and spent the last hour snuggling him with my top off - and can get him awake enough to latch, but not suck. Of course, because I gave birth on Wednesday and this is my PFB, I was then completely convinced that he's so starved that he's too weak to suck, and ohgodI'vekilledhimalready.... more weeping and panicking (this is so unlike me, seriously) - and a friend who's training as a BF peer supporter pointed out that if he's had between 150-200ml of formula (we spilt some) then he's had a whopping double feed and is probably still working on digesting that.

He's dozing a bit, awake a bit, and moving lots, pink, and looks pretty happy. I'm the one who's a bit of a mess, but feeling much better for realising that (1) My milk has arrived and he's still able to latch and (2) he's not failing to suck cos he's been rendered weak by my inadequate feeding, he's not sucking cos he's not hungry cos I fed him up to the gills five hours ago.

Thank you! I'll almost certainly be back with more questions (panic! stress! PFB!) but right now I'm off to see if I can express a teensy bit so I don't get rock-like sore breasts. (OW OW this pump is made of evil and pain.)

I love you, Mumsnet. You're great.

Edited to add: DH just went to change a nappy to see if it was wet and he was adequately hydrated.

DS weed all over him. I was making toast when I heard "Well, he's as dehydrated as a fountain."

Right. Now he's so very awake I'm going to see if he'll eat a bit more. Thanks again.

DONT WORRY!!!!

I had my first 11 days ago, I had the same worry as the teeeeeeny amount of milk/colostrum didnt seem enough. 2 days later and I was producing enough to feed a baby army. You'll soon be making so much you'll hurt and wont know what to do with it all!

I had a bit of extra help getting the supply up as mine wasnt breast feeding properly until yesterday so I've been duel expressing 10 to 15 mins every 3 hours, that really helped the supply I think.

Oh blackcurrants I'm so happy for you

Yes do express to relieve your poor boobs - remember you can keep in the fridge for something like 4/5 days, it will split and you'll think 'bleugh' but when you shake it the milk comes back together.

Hope he's having a lovely feed now

Pleased to see that things are settling down, you should start feeling a little better now your milk has come in.

150-200ml is more than a double feed! He has a stomach the size of a standard marble, which is why he feeds and feeds and feeds. Within a few days it will be the size of a medium marble then a large marble not long after so you'll notice more and more the gap between feeds getting further and his desperate feeding slowing down.

About the temperature, when it's hot you will produce a slightly more watery milk to give him extra fluids, so don't worry your body is prepared for it. Also, you might notice your chest feels hot? That's natures incubator! When you put your hot baby to your hot chest your body will cool down bringing his temperate down. Likewise, if it was winter and he was cold your body would warm back up to warm baby up. It's all sorted!

Glad things are settling down. If it helps I ended up giving (well letting midwife as still in hospital) DS 8oz of formula on day 3. He was happy - I got some sleep. Was the only bottle he ever took. And 9 months later am still BFing and DS refuses bottles totally - which is a pain as I went back to work 3 months ago...

Hah! Good to know it works out somehow!

Now we have a situation where he feeds relatively well for 10 minutes, then falls asleep, and then is awake again ten minutes later sucking his fingers (his favourite thing) - but won't feed. Any thoughts?

ARGH why is this so COMPLICATED?

He is lovely though. He smells so good...

If he's sucking his fingers but not feeding then he needs to suck but he's not hungry. Would be best if he could do it on you as he can control the suckle to tell the breast when he does and doesn't want food in turn which helps your breasts to know when he is and isn't hungry, but I wouldn't worry too much about it though.

Falling asleep after a feed is good, means he is tanking up.

Just go with his flow (not in the same way your hubby did though!) and as long as he seems happy don't stress it!

Thanks - that's helpful to hear! I have a new question so I'm starting a new thread. Perhaps it's like Big Brother, and I'm going to have a question per day? "Breastdfeeding: day Four..."

In the first few days and weeks I watched DD like a hawk. I can even remember what day things happened just like Big Brother. Day 4 was definitely the day she slept nearly allllll day and I couldn't get her to wake and feed. Just as I had a tonne of milk and felt like I had canonballs in my bra! Very strange the way nature works. Glad things are better.

Dude, 200ml is how much my 20 month old takes at a time, I'm not surprised he took a while to want more.

I was just going to say, re: the pump, have you tried hand expressing? I found that much, much better in the early days - less efficient, but much more gentle, and quite satisfying in a "I'm doing this myself" sort of way. I didn't own a pump till 6 weeks but hand expressed enough to be able to hand my daughter over for a few hours well before then. Even when I got used to the pump it was always more painful than by hand, and I think it's an underutilised technique so I always recommend it.

Ok, will look for new thread, so happy to hear that you and Ben are okay.