Depressed...

[mrsgordonfreeman]

Last night I read several threads all along the same lines: baby feeding v frequently, hv or midwife giving rubbish advice, weighing baby, painful nipples, formula top ups.

Several rl friends have the same story. I managed to bf successfully, thanks to a doula, an nct bf advisor and tiktok on here.

I'm so depressed now about the hopeless nature of bf support in the uk, but cheered slightly by the positive help the women got on here.

Can't we do better than a few hectoring posters in the waiting room? Why is it all so rubbish?

I'm doing a peer support course in November btw, if you're not part of the solution and so forth...

It will be really interesting to see what this year's new Infant Feeding Survey has to say, after all the efforts of voluntary groups etc in the last few years.

Once my new HV heard I was doing the BfN training, she totally opened up about how little training about bf (none!) she has had in 20 years and how insecure she feels when giving women advice. She even asked - jokingly - if she could ask me for advice. I told her I wasn't the most experienced person but there was feeling in her joke.

It's just very hit and miss, isn't it? I must say, the attitude and advoce given in my local hospital after birth of DS two weeks ago was very much better than when I had DD two and a half years ago. I do put some of that down to our local BfN group as the MWs were praising them to the skies, so maybe little by little things are improving. Let's hope the survey bears that out.

I couldn't have breastfed without the support of weekly breastfeeding cafe at local surestart centre - a lady even came out to my house twice. Was this support funded by the government or an NHS service or what? Am interested in how it all works as didn't think to ask at the time! The bf cafe I went to never had many people there - wondered if it was in danger of being closed.

My midwife was also very helpful and supportive, as were midwives/ staff in hospital.

HV was not so great. She told me she didn't bf herself and kept going on about spacing feeds out to every 4 hours which I really worried about till I met other mums who said that they bf-ed every hour or two.

Oh and I HATE the breastfeeding posters in waiting room!! They must put off young girls who care about what they look like. You can bf without getting your whole belly and boob out!!

It amazes me that so many women carry on breast feeding considering how difficult I am finding it! I was not prepared for the pain (yes I KNOW it's not supposed to hurt but it does!) and the mental/psychological impact.

I have found that there is support but you have to be really proactive in finding it and also a bit pushy. I really think that there needs to be more resources put into the support making it more accessible and standard rather than just there when you encounter problems - it should be preventative so focused on making sure you get a good latch from the BEGINNING. But this is highly unlikely considering the current economic situation.

Will now step off my soap box

Don't know what the waiting room is????

I came across wildly different attitudes from different midwives when I was in hospital with DD (now nearly 8 weeks old). I had a crash section under general anaesthetic and so DD was very sleepy and wouldn't feed. I had great support and patience from all but two of the midwives, but it is astonishing how much damage even one negative comment can do. I was in hospital for nearly a week solely to try and establish breastfeeding: there was no obstetric reason for me to be there, I was only there for feeding support. I had bf counsellors come and visit me, was provided with donor breast milk and a midwife to cup feed DD when she wouldn't feed from me before my milk came in (after which I expressed myself and she was cup fed by the midwives), the infant feeding midwife expressed my colostrum for me when I was out of my mind on morphine and utterly exhausted, then painstakingly loaded it into tiny syringes and fed it to DD. But all of that was very nearly ruined by two midwives, one of whom marched into my room and said, 'I hear baby has no interest in breastfeeding so I'm going to give her a formula top-up'. I was just about strong enough at that point to react angrily and tell her that that was utter rubbish and that she would NOT be having formula but my expressed breast milk and she was very cold and hostile with me for the rest of her shift (which obviously was very uncomfortable for me). If she had said that to me 24 hours later, when I was really at the end of my tether, I probably would have given up and let her give DD a bottle. The other crappy midwife, totally unaware that DD was being cup fed with my expressed milk (of which I had litres!!!) said that I 'should be enjoying the baby, and would it be the worst thing in the world if you gave her a bottle?' - to which I said, 'yes, actually, it WOULD be the worst thing in the world - I've got plenty of milk, she isn't interested in feeding full stop - it's nothing to do with the breast, so why try and persuade her to take an artificial teat when I can persevere and persuade her to take the nipple?' She was really shocked when I told her that the endless bottles of milk in the ward fridge were mine and did admit that, since I had plenty of milk, perhaps I should persevere with feeding attempts for a bit longer .

I was lucky that I only came across two midwives with such crappy attitudes - it could have been a lot worse. And I am a very determined and pissy sort of person, so I was able to stick up for myself - but it did make me uncomfortable to have to do so and I was feeling vulnerable at the time, as all new mums probably do. I think had I been less determined to bf, I would have given up.

DD is now successfully ebf and has been gaining 1/2lb a week consistently .

I agree it's totaly shocking how little support is given. Most midwifes/HV don't seem to have the right traning to help and I was suppriesed to learn that while doing my BfN helper traning I'd be better trained then most midwifes.

passionberry - Most of the groups are volentires, I'll hopefully be helping out at our local cafe once I've finished traning. Which should be the end of this week.
I think they have been getting some goverment funding to do the traning courses, but this is likly to dry up soon. As well off course the surestart centures being at risk to.

Orginisations like BfN, NCT and LLL are all registered charities.

I'm glad to hear someone say this. Frankly I think the NHS is wrong to back the breast is best campaign whilst providing so little support. I REALLY wanted to breastfeed, but had no idea HOW to. In retrospect I cocked things up a bit, but I didn't even know anyone who had done it and had no advice. I left hospital with a screaming starving baby who had never latched in the 5 days we were in together and had lost 11% body weight (not weighed until 9 days after discharge). The only milk in him was the few drops I squeezed onto a teaspoon from the tea trolley late at night not knowing what else to do. I was in no state to demand help, though I did ask weakly and was ignored. The fact my child was screaming the ward down I would have thought would attract some attention. It went from bad to worse at home, I cracked and gave me a bottle at 3am at a loss of what else to do with a purple hysterical baby. I latched him only twice in 6 weeks despite a massive amount of trying. I then tried to express. I left hospital with a vomiting/ diahorea bug and became VERY dehydrated, after which I was producing about 30ml per express, which slowly dwindled to 10. I gave up as I didn't have time to express so little plus prepare feeds and care for a difficult newborn (poor thing had stomach bug and screamed for a week). The hospital didn't even do my discharge properly and I didn't have a midwife visit the next day. By the time I'd chased anyone up it was pretty much too late, plus there was no interest in helping me. You're in no state after birth to find info/ chase support. I could now, but my milk is gone.

And after all this crap I have the added guilt of every bloody person banging on about breast is best and implying I'm an awful mother. Every appointment they ask how he's feed, yet noone was there to help me do what they recommend. Yes millions of women do it worldwide, but it's not so easy in a culture where you have no other female you can turn to with experience. I was NOT lazy, I nearly drove myself to pnd with my inept 24/7 attempts to bf. Few have put in more effort trying or wanted to more, but I just couldn't. I didn't even have my milk come in for 7 days. I didn't have a clue what to do for those days.

It really hurts me how hard I tried and wanted to. I'm looking at him and feeling like I've deprived him. Until this week I was spending hours each day expressing to get a total of 90ml a day for a baby that eats 150ml per feed. That's how much I wanted him to get at least some milk from me.

All very shocking. Sounds like we all need to be campaigning for more support.

When my DD (firstborn) was born I was in hospital for just 24 hours (my choice I was desperate to leave). Whenever I needed to fed her I pushed the button and a midwife came round and helped me get her to latch on. I fed her several times in hospital, and was happy at discharge.

When BFing still hurt at 6 weeks I went to a breastfeeding counsellor to check her latch (which was fine) - for me breastfeeding is painful at the start of a feed.

My SIL is having her first baby in August and we have discussed that she is happy for me to help her get baby latched on, she even said she wants me to come to visit her as soon as her LO is born.

I had very good support, first on the ward, then from HVs, then from breastfeeding counsellor. Wish everybody had the same.

It's the fact that it's the same problems over and over again:

supply and (perceived?) lack thereof
latch
frequency and duration of feeds
mother's expectations
social support
cultural factors

that get me down. It was only because I lurked on this forum that I knew what to expect.

I had a cs after 14 unproductive hours but dd latched on immediately and fed beautifully. However, persistent green poo and a midwife who wanted me to express, feed and then give ebm in a bottle would have made me give up had I not had the confidence to seek a second opinion (that this was bolleaux).

I had my share of thrush and mastitis, and fillips of alarm when dd spent her time just snoozing at the nipple rather than feeding.

However, I kept my cool and succeeded: but I feel sorry that so many do not.

Some don't want to, and that's a whole nother thing, but so many wanted to, really wanted to, and failed, and feel guilty as a result.

This isn't right.

I do think peer support is the answer. Although the NHS booklets are very good, if you're in the first few days and you have your mother / older sister / friend telling you you should be feeding every 4 hours for 2 minutes at a time, then you are going to think there's "not enough milk". Or to go longer between feeds to let your breasts fill up a bit. There are so many myths out there that serve to hinder breastfeeding, and even if you are lucky enough to have a mum who breastfed she probably mix fed or started you on solids at 10 weeks.

I think part of the problem is that hospitals only care if your bf when your discharged (as this goes on their stats), no-one has any responsibility for the stats at 6weeks.

At the time I thought the MW's were generally pretty good, but realised they only wanted me to feed her to the point where I was happy to be discharged.

iirc the leaflet said about what a good latch was, but nothing about the three week growth spurt and cluster feeding. I think this is what catches most people out.

My SIL has just given up her 18days old due to feeding once an hour in evenings (despite sleeping though the night) and sore nipples. arrrgh, if she would have only talked to me (but I'm the overachiever who's a snob for having left the council estate so come across as patronising ) instead of all her family who insisted that because LO was so big, she clearly wasn't getting enough milk.

This has made to want to train as a breast feeding person when I come back to the UK.

Another thing are annoys me though, is although the charities are great, I wish they had sessions outside of the working day.