BF MW says I'm doing everything right, so why is everything going so wrong?

[DinahRod]

Baby is 5 days old and have struggled to get him to latch from the beginning. He will either give a few sucks and then stop/falls asleep or cries round the breast. He is slightly jaundiced.

MW bf advisor came out yesterday and looked at positioning, checked him for thrush, tongue tie etc - she couldn't get him to latch either, struggled to wake him and declared him to be a "tinker"! My nipples are a bit flat but that shouldn't stop me from feeding she said. In the end she just said she didn't know what to recommend, to keep trying and I'd get there

Well ok, it's comforting to know there's nothing obvious I'm doing wrong but it doesn't help get him to feed!

My supply is ok (not bucket loads but should be enough) and I'm having to use a manual pump to express to stop supply drying up and to actually give him some EBM. But this isn't helping the bf .

Spent 3 hours in bed with him today skin to skin which he enjoyed. He manoeuvred himself to suck at the breast but once there he sucked a few times and then had the screaming abdabs.

I'm so disheartened and I can see dh thinking why put yourself through this.

Can anyone give me some advice?

Ok, did the BF person talk you through the cross-cradle hold? It's the way new babies breastfeed easiest - if you're feeding on the right side, you're holding the baby with your left arm, and generally not holding the head. If you haven't been talked through that, I can try to find a video.

Thrush is unlikely at this age.

Re: tongue tie, sometimes posterior tie isn't noticed (although tbh fixing it doesn't always fix the problem ). Can he stick out his tongue, and if so, is it pointy or heart-shaped?

If you are expressing, you should be expressing 6-8 times per day, at least one of those times at an antisocial hour. This will protect your supply.

Doing skin to skin is good stuff, it really does sound like you're doing all you can. If you were in my area, probably the bf workers would get you fingerfeeding.

Are you bottlefeeding him the expressed milk? Is cupfeeding an option?

Worth getting another opinion, I think, Dinah - but often, babies do sort themselves out even when the early days have been difficult.

Stay in bed with him skin to skin, if you can His behaviour makes me think he might have been shoved and head-pushed a bit too much - is that possible do you think? The attempts to wake him by the midwife may have created, rather than resolved, a problem. Google biological nurturing for a clearer idea of how to help him self-attach.

Is he pooing plenty? By now he should be producing several soft yellow poos a day.

If all is well, then he might just 'get it' with patience and less fighting

I found that when I did everything right everything went wrong and both my babies reacted how you describe.

I put my nipple to the chin(instead of to the nose) as I found they opened their mouth wider, and I took my breast to baby (instead of baby to breast). This solved things for me maybe try different latch and position techniques see if you can find one that works.

Have you tried stripping him off to his nappy? Mine used to get too warm and comfortable to be bothered to feed, just wanted to sleep. If I stripped him off there was more chance of him staying awake and feeding.

My LO would not latch until I used nipple shields. If your milk has come in they might be worth a try. We also tried a technique of a tiny tube (feeding tube) into the shield which my DH pushed milk from a syringe through to get LO to realise that food was there.

Have been using shields and BF for 5 months now.

Good luck!

I had awful trouble at the beginning as well and your post sounds very familiar! Every MW had a different idea about how to 'fix' it. My baby was a bit jaundiced too. I was forced to supplement with formula by one dictatorial MW in the hospital and was devastated by the thought that I'd never get to BF properly, but it actually worked - the fluid helped get rid of the jaundice, and as that went, my little lady became more awake and BF was easier. We then just cut out the formula after the HV said her weight was good. It didn't cause any nipple confusion thankfully.

You're probably doing all this already, but I changed her before feeds, stripped her (so she wouldn't get too warm and sleepy) and fed her exclusively lying down. She seemed to prefer being able to take her time to find the nipple - not that I blame her after being shoved all over the place by the midwives with their different theories & approaches. The position suited me better too because I wasn't stressing out about whether I was holding her at the right height, or having my arms get tired etc.

I know it seems like you'll never get it right now, but 5 days really isn't very long. Hang on in there another couple of days and try not to despair - I'm sure you'll get some good advice here.

Thank you so much, didn't realise how not bf was getting to me but when I read all your advice I just welled up - hormones, huh!

Yes, bottlefeeding the expressed milk, but can't produce enough for the whole day so having formula too, NotQuiteCockney.

Cup fed at the beginning,then told syringe feed, then told bf exclusively, then when he got the shakes, must bottle feed...too much in the way of advice really and it's hard to see the wood from the trees.

Tiktok, now that you said it, he's been pushed around a lot, the mw bf advisor was was quite 'forceful' with his head (suggesting new mums were too gentle) so now I think he gets distressed even as he approaches the breast Have just watched a video of biological nurturing which looked just lovely - looks like what I've inadvertantly tried today when skin-to-skin

Am going to try and get a 2nd opinion too - Le Leche maybe?

Hi Slushy, have been stripping him off but not every time - so will do so

Am also upping the expressing by two

Brasso, that tube idea sounds ingenious, since he doesn't seem to realise the breast a source of food! Never heard of it before though.

Am off to express and then have more prolonged skin-to-skin.

Found Jack Newman videos helpful on latching. Google it or look on www.kellymom.com for links.

Phone LaLeche league or NCT breastfeeding helplines

Do you know if you've got a breastfeeding cafe near you?

I had awful problems getting my first son to latch and it was a very emotional rollercoaster. I found the rugby hold the best position as I could see what was going on and he seemed to open his mouth wider.
I also expressed a bit of milk out to get in flowing so did not need to work hard at the breast before he got milk.

I hope you manage to get the support you need

Thank you mum2JRC - have just watched a couple of short videos. Was wondering who to call so will try LeLeche tomorrow, they give advice on a phone line according to their website.

Do they also have bf counsellors who come and see you in person?

My own mw is saying some women just can't bf - she is more focused on % birthweight loss (7.7% so far, 8% and over the concern she says)

I found loads of different positions really helped. Took me ages to find one that suited my (teeny, 4lb) ds. Holding him like a rugby ball, when he was swaddled, was what I ended up with.

Swaddling was the key for him, for the first few weeks.

Hang on in there - from reading posts on here, there are lots of mums who say that they simply couldn't bf, but lots more who say they found it difficult and then it worked out for them, which was certainly my experience. Believe you're going to be one of the ones where it works out!

Dinah - yes, talk it over with someone in real life, good idea.

There is normally no concern with weight loss up to 10 per cent and even then no big deal if the baby has clearly turned a corner and has stopped losing weight.

The story you tell is one of interference and man-handling - maybe necessary (who knows?) but definitely likely to affect the baby's feeding in the short term, and the baby will need time to get over it all.

You sound motivated and determined, and that will help

Could you phone up the hospital where you delivered for advice on BF counsellors which you could see in person.
Defintely see if you've got a BF cafe near you in next few days as will be able to go in person.

Keep up the expressing every 2-3 hours and make sure your expressing from both sides to get supply going.
Lots of skin to skin etc.