DECEMBER BOOK OF THE MONTH DISCUSSION THREAD - Thursday's bookclub session and author chat here

[TillyBookClub]

Hi all, this is the discussion thread to come to this Thursday night 8-10pm for December's Book of the Month, Agent Zigzag. Author Ben Macintyre will be joining us from 9 onwards.

If you can't make the session and would like to ask Ben a question then do post it here now and we'll email it on. And if you want to post a question in advance pop it up here on this thread, and we'll email them to him. Ben will start with those on Thursday eve.

I'm hoarding the last of the pudding wine and Quality Street in anticipation (should be drinking something far more spy-like and sophisticated but never could stomach martini)

Squonk, as I know your time is short:

From Squonk

My question to Ben is: When you decide to write a book like this, that needs tons of research, do you just (figuratively speaking) march right up to the powers that be and say "I'm writing a book, tell me stuff"? Or do you need references from publishers or the like. And would it have been possible to do had you not had contacts from the Times and several other books under your belt?

Usually, no references are necessary. At the National Archives you simply fill out a form to get a reader?s card, go to the computers, and order up what you want. You can order a lot of stuff online. MI5, needless to say, doesn?t quite work that way and in that case, I made contact through intermediaries: an extremely helpful archivist at the National Archives agreed to forward a letter from me to the ?relevant authorities?; after a while, they contacted me, and it went from there. I am not sure if my job on The Times was a help or a hindrance. I am sure that had I not written books before, I might have had different, or at least slower responses.

ooh, cross posted with the answer, now I feel all needy and impatient

But thank you Ben

And thank you from me for coming on here tonight, and thank you for a very enjoyable book.

Now I'm off

Will catch up on the rest of the thread tomorrow.

at needy Squonk

From Not yummy

Do you think he had a borderline personality disorder? The constant need for action/lying/womanising etc (or is that just MEN?)

No, I really do think he was borderline personality, and I wish I had gone into that in more detail in the book. His wild mood swings, the elation and the despair, the anger and remorse, the rule breaking and the desire to be appreciated (by people who made and upheld the rules). Particularly in later life, he became quite difficult to handle. The womanising was also more then simply the behaviour of a handsome lothario. He may have been undiagnosed bipolar. But I also think that, like many people who suffer from that disorder, it was also the motor that made him run, and gave him such incredible energy and, in his own crooked way, ambition.

Hmm Ben that's interesting. MI5 probably not so keen to recruit bi-polar criminals these days, I would imagine.

I once worked for the MOD and had to sign the Official Secrets Act - I am also rubbish at keeping secrest and told everyone I knew that I had signed the Official Secrets Act within 30 seconds of signing it. Fortunately I was too thick to know WTF we were making anyway. I think it the Eurofighter. Or the Harrier. Or a helicopter.

How long do I have to wait for Ben to answer my question or has he gone already?

to catch up:

absolutely No to Rupert Everett, surely

my children are 12, 10 and 8

I was never in the business of spying..,honestly

The FOI act does not really apply here...MI5 and MI6 can really block anyhting they want on the grounds of national security and there is no comeback

Fort de Romainville (the prison camp) was razed after the war

I tend to write very early in the morning, when the brain is still working...

I'm glad its not just me then! I thought perhaps I was reading too much 21st psychiatric analysis into it, but some of his behaviour does seem like someone who has some level of mental illness.

The interesting thing is that some of that may have helped him be a good spy!

re personality disorder

I think this came accross pretty clearly in the book - during the periods in the various safe houses etc. I really enjoyed the book - particularly the bits in Oslo as I have family there.

Do you think that we are BETTER at intelligence and managing people these days, or do you think that technology has just moved on to enable us to be better? I mean, the book showed that the whole WW2 intelligence operation was basically strung together with string and totally random. Although it's so hard to imagine life before telecoms enabled communication to be so instant. I mean all that faff to get the photo of the submarine device in a tobacco tin... these days that sort of thing is unimaginable. But there were so many gaffes and blunders along the way - imagine what the press would do these days, considering they are happy to hang the Prime Minister for losing a couple of CD-ROMS. So were they a bit CRAP?

Did I like him?

I couldn?t help liking him. I really did not want to, but there was something so vital about his personality. On the other hand, I am glad I never met him. I think one would have been superficially charmed, but then realised he had stolen your wallet. He was fantastically hurtful to both women and men, and yet I don?t think he ever meant to hurt anyone.

I found the Faramus story hugely moving. Taht he shoudl have survived, and they got to have a drink together after the way, despite best efforts of concentration camps. And that they both thought about each other all the time. Almost the biggest love story of the book. Is he now dead? do you think his imprisonment brought out Chapman's heroic side? Without him, perhaps the darker elements might have won...

Von Groning friendship also fascinating - I sort of imagine that spies are all in cahoots with each other, whether they're double agents or not. Only another spy understands you, so you must have a strong connection even though they're your enemy.

I have to say that the book also puts paid to some of the rather sweeping generalisations of the incredibly efficient German war machine!

Some elements of it were obviously horrifically efficient....but not their Secret Service it would seem

yers von groning friendship v. interesting. Loved the story of their reunion at the end.

What else hugley interested me was the fact that when you think of spies you think they are busy all the time, but the length of time he spent in both England and Norway puts paid to that theory and how both sides still thought the info was vital months later.

As regards his german handler Stephan, in your opinion did he know that Eddie was a double agent.

I also loved the parts about the 'magic team' that was commissioned to make tanks etc. disappear. I can imagine Louie Theroux investigating... I loved the faking of the mosquito factory bombing.

blimey my head is itching I think I have nits

MP: Operation Overlord was VERY well organised! Not sure if we could do it know...

Faramus is dead, but his widow is still alive...he wrote the most harrowing book about his war years.

Morningpaper: yes, the technology has changed everything, and also nothing. The very same techniques seem to apply, today, as back then: funnily enough the Zigzag case is sued as sort of intructional case for agents today...

I find relationship with Von Groning fascinating -Ben -what in your view was reason for the fact that they seemed to have such a close relationship? I am more puzzled as to why Van Groning clearly came to like Eddie so much (and I think it was more than the fact he was his passport for success with the reich) than why Eddie would respond to someone who was the good cop type when he was first transferred out of de Romainville into training.

Do you know what happened to his Norwegian girlfriend after the war? Can't remember if this was covered in the book - read it a while ago.

Agree with you ther Morningpaper, DH didn't believe it until I found some info on web. My head has started itching too.

sophie yes about them not being busy. They seemed to go MONTHS with nothing to do. It sounds HORRENDOUSLY boring. No wonder he was depressed.

Did Von Groening KNOW chapman was a double agent: no

Did he suspect? I think definitely yes. Did it suit his purposes not to know? absolutely.

The German Abwehr were pretty inefficient, but it has to be said that we were pretty hopeless at the start of the war. The Venlo incident (described in William Boyd's Restless) was fantastic cockup by the British secret service right at the start of the war.

Yes I liked the magic section too MP - a sort of a cross between Paul Daniels, Changing Rooms and Q from Bond!

I loved Lord Rothschild too - I loved the way he felt he had to tell people not to cut the coal bomb in half when they discovered it ... hahaha YEAH RIGHT tht would be the first thing you would think of doing