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Original poster

October Book of The Month Discussion - In the Country of Men

166 replies

TillyBookClub · 30/10/2007 11:22

This is the thread to come to for tonight's Book of the Month discussion and live author chat. Just a reminder, we'll kick off at 8pm and chat about the book amongst ourselves for an hour. And then Hisham Matar, our author for this month, will join us at 9pm to answer questions and give us the inside story. We'll probably wrap up around 10pm.

If you can't make it this evening but would like to ask Hisham a question or two, please post them here now and Hisham will post his answers later on.

See you here at 8pm...
Tx

OP posts:
chocoholic · 30/10/2007 20:26

Yes, you would have thought that someone who has their house raided and has neighbours being taken would perhaps take their son aside and tell him not to mention things!

fryalot · 30/10/2007 20:29

that's true... nothing was ever explained to him, was it? His mum was quite happy to take him into her confidence when drunk about her shitty life, but never thought to mention things that were really, life and death important.

FlameInHell · 30/10/2007 20:32

I wanted to shake him for keeping the book too!! The parents should definitely have said something to him - if you are going to live a life like that, you need to make sure everyone involved knows what to do!!

cosmicdancer · 30/10/2007 20:32

I loved the book and particularly found the end really harrowing - so many years wasted. Suleiman seemed very naive and seeking approval in his betrayals.

Hisham Matar seems to have a lot of insight into the alcoholic parent I also wonder if the book is semi autobiographical.

MadamePlatypus · 30/10/2007 20:33

My DS is 4 and I completely identified the character of Suleiman with DS. DS will often go off and do something bad/naughty when he is cross with me. I am too far away from 9 year olds to know whether this is reasonable behaviour for a 9 year old, but unfortunately I have been listening to that free Sunday Times Horrid Henry CD alot in the car, and although I know it is a bad comparison, I didn't think it was unrealistic for a 9 year old to do something wrong seemingly for the hell of it.

One of the things I liked about the book was how blase the children were about their situation. People disappearing was both normalised (e.g. Suleiman describing seeing torture on TV) and awful.

SusanNevs · 30/10/2007 20:34

so many lessons here! on the metaphor - i think by understanding how we want to defend S, who in his childish ignorance (or insert your excuse of choice) behaved so cruelly, we can understand the actions of a "democratically ignorant" (please do not take offense to this) populace. i know it's a big reach, but i can't help mulling it over.

Original poster
TillyBookClub · 30/10/2007 20:37

SusanNevs, I'm with you - I thought how hard it was to be noble and pure in any situation and that the adult leaders are really selfish as children. There's a good review on amazon that points out there are no heroes in this book (Suleiman wonders where they've all gone too). Although I think Kareem comes out of it as a near enough hero...

What did everyone feel about the mother's beatings and arranged marriage being the root of her problems? Did it explain her weakness? Its another example of both the regime and personal relationships breaking someone apart. She comes across to me as broken in parts - like a toy thats half working, half not.

OP posts:
MadamePlatypus · 30/10/2007 20:38

He kept the book for his father didn't he? Presumably the family were protecting him by not telling him what was going on. Either that or they thought that he was too young to understand. I think quite a few things in the book were deliberately unclear because the story was first person narrative and HM was quite disciplined in not going beyond Suleiman's knowledge of what was going on.

cosmicdancer · 30/10/2007 20:38

I know a lot of you felt angry with the mum for her drinking but I actually felt really sorry for her. When she was sober she did some really kind acts e.g. the sesame sticks. I think it shows the dual personality of the alcoholic.

MNHQ
JustscreamMumsnet · 30/10/2007 20:40

Did anyone think Suleiman was being deliberately destructive to punish his parents for a) not being there (his father) b) being drunk and unreliable (his mother) c) not trusting him with any insight/ information about what was happening to their family?

He kind of went from an entirely powerless position - one in which he was at the mercy of his parents' weaknesses and whims - to a positon in which he suddenly had power to do something - albeit damage - and he just grabbed it either as payback or just because for once he could have some influence over events in a world where he generally had no influence. Would explain why he bullied the beggar too...

fryalot · 30/10/2007 20:40

She seemed to really hate S's father but towards the end of the book she seemed to really love him.

I wasn't sure if she really did love him at the end or whether she had just accepted that this was the way things were and she had to get on with it.

I shouldn't imagine the arranged marriage helped much, but I also imagine that back in the mid 70s it would have been extremely rare to have a marriage that was not arranged, so perhaps it was more who she was married to rather than the arranging of it iykwim

cosmicdancer · 30/10/2007 20:41

Agree about the mother being broken Tilly she was so young and I had a lot more simpathy at the end when we find out she is still only 39.

MadamePlatypus · 30/10/2007 20:41

I was confused about the alcoholism. Did the mother not drink when the father was around because it was illegal or because she didn't want to. Would an alcoholic have been able to have periods of drinking and not drinking like this?

Notyummy · 30/10/2007 20:41

Sorry I am late...\i confess I forgot but am now sitting down with laptop!

Although I found Suleiman frstrating, I found that this made him very real. In particular the way he was rather randomly cruel to other children. I can remember doing a few things as a child that I could not explain or justify, and it was interesting to see him behaving like this.

fryalot · 30/10/2007 20:42

I understood that she couldn't drink when he was around because he wouldn't have let her.

beanymum · 30/10/2007 20:42

A question for Hisham - I was shocked at the behaviour of the 'high council' and their ruthlessness in marrying the Sulieman's mother off after she had been seen in the Cafe with a boy. The book seemed to suggest that there would have been an 'honour killing' if she had not been a virgin when she met her husband. Is that kind of thing common in Libya? Did people get away with it during the revolutionary regime?

MNHQ
JustscreamMumsnet · 30/10/2007 20:43

I thought the Mother was both madly in love with and reliant upon the father and just couldn't cope with his absences or the worry of what trouble he might be getting into. She didn't need to drink when he was there because she was blissfully happy was my take - but please Hisham correct me if I'm wrong...

Notyummy · 30/10/2007 20:44

I think the mother was an alcoholic but with a psychological dependency rather than a physical, otherwise she would have found it impossible to stop when the father was around?

cosmicdancer · 30/10/2007 20:45

I agree that the mother didn't drink when the father was around because she couldn't. Many alcoholics are able to only drink when they have the opportunity.

ChampagneSupernova · 30/10/2007 20:45

MadamePlatypus - that's a good point about the discipline required to keep everything from S's perspective and keeping things deliberately vague to add to the ambience (that's not the right word but I can't think of the right one ) of the book.

MadamePlatypus · 30/10/2007 20:46

I felt that the arranged marriage raised questions about who was reactionary and who was liberal. The mother was betrayed by her brother who had apparently been allowed to marry an American (I think?). In turn she was married by somebody who the family later spurned because of his political views. Once she returned to the family fold she became a marriage broker herself.

Notyummy · 30/10/2007 20:46

I also think that the mother missed the father when he was not there, but part of her loathed him and blamed him for robbing her of a freedom and life she had hoped to have when she was ayoung girl.

ChampagneSupernova · 30/10/2007 20:46

I thought that Justine about the drinking.

MadamePlatypus · 30/10/2007 20:47

married TO somebody

lalaa · 30/10/2007 20:50

Yes, my take about the mother's drinking was the same as Justine's.