Winchester entrance position

[Thecatiswithhishat]

Good morning mums,

I am hoping that some of you can advise, my DS is about to sit the Winchester entrance exam. He has a conditional place in a house for September , his grades will be a mix and I am concerned about sending him there. I worry about being talked into sending him there after the exams, our headmaster said they will not turn a boy away at this stage.

My main concern is that he will fall through the cracks and won’t reach his potential.
I know that he would be so unhappy if this were the case.

It sounds like you don’t want him to go as you believe the school is a poor fit….

where else has he applied / sat for?
ie What are your options?

it’s a good school but that’s not the be all and end all.

Irrelevant really as they are mid 30s…
but my DHs best man went to Winchester I don’t think he’d recommend it. I also met a few of his school friends at his wedding this year and there was only one of them that I’d describe as “presenting as well rounded” the others had glaring issues/problems

Thank you @GreatGateauxsby , I am having sleepless nights tbh. I have another option, it’s not a very well known school but the children seem very happy. I know that they would love to have my son. He is a lovely well rounded boy at this stage, I think you might be right about the right fit.

My nephew started at Winchester, his parents became very disillusioned with the school in the 1st year. They stayed far too long but did leave, DN achieved all A* at A level and had a very fabulous time at 6th form.The PP has a good point about the fit , that's exactly how DN would describe the majority of boys.

If you are having sleepless nights then I think you KNOW it’s not a good fit but feel pressured because… well it’s Winchester…

I would talk to your current school headteacher to understand more about what secondaries they are feeder schools to and also revisit to the other school you like.

I would add its a little bit unusual to only have 2 secondary choices…
most people I know have 4+ to keep options open.
My parents had me sit for 7!?!

He did sit for two others , he didn’t get an offer at our 1st choice and we didn’t keep the place at the second. Our headmaster has suggested a

boys boarding and a coed we will visit both this week and take it from there.

I think by the start of the term before going to a private secondary you usually have decided and only hold one offer. Otherwise you become liable for a terms school fees, and to hold more would also be pretty disruptive for the school you eventually turn down. It is more usual to hold a few offers with small deposits until
start year 8.

OP, perhaps exam nerves for your DS are getting to you too? I think mocks are designed to shock a bit and he wouldn’t have the offer if he couldn’t keep up in their opinion.

I agree that the year 6 process is the main assessment point and they do try to honour those offers. Entrance is in part for streaming though they do on rare occasions withdraw an offer. I have known of this at both Eton and Winchester.

I’m not quite understanding the bit about being pressured to send DS? Do you mean he will want to if he can? Getting through Entrance doesn’t compel you to accept.

I’m also not too sure about some of the other comments on this thread. Winchester is definitely the right school for a certain type and I’ve known many lovely boys there. My friend’s two girls went through a school ( one still there) who have socials with them and said events with Winchester boys are always popular as the boys are gentlemanly and interesting to talk to. I suppose people have types they relate to. It’s not at all a “jock-ish” sort of place, and I think not a place where it would be ideal to be toward the bottom of the intake academically, if that helps. But there is no obligation to take up the place .

I don’t understand when exactly headmasters started suggesting Winchester as a second choice for boys who had Eton as their first. I always thought Radley or Harrow would be 2nd choices. I think that is when it all started going topsy turvy.

Yes, you are quite right really : Eton Winchester Westminster are “tier one”. A wise second choice would be a “ tier 2” school. However, I guess life doesn’t always play out clinically and I have known children to get offers from each of those and waitlist/ rejection from the other two. So I suppose it’s an element of gamble…

I think that was indeed the case @Calliopespa but the WinColl profile has been altered since the changes announced in 2021, as well as concern around pastoral care. WinColl is seen more as a Tier 2 now with a trend of prep school
leavers opting for Tonbridge/Radley over WinColl. The bar for entry has become lower.

My eldest is 30 and he'd say there were major deficits. It was a while ago so maybe things have changed.

It is definitely a tier 2 school now and not in the same bracket as Westminster or Eton academically. That myth is long gone sadly, so yes, I would be concerned. If you have other options, I would exercise them soon. Both Radley and Tonbridge are just as academic with staff that actually care about the pupils...and in an appropriate way. See below:

It always seems to be WC, so it's not surprising there are so many concerns on here. It looks like the school was mismanaged for the last 50 years and the current team are trying to clean it up and clean up the image. But honestly, with so many of the current teachers, including the new Head who were at the school when this happened, how can you possibly know whether they knew about it at the time, and who turned a blind eye?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13328947/Drama-teacher-Winchester-College-pupil-kiss.html

I think you can dig up a press scandal or two on most of these schools.

My point was simply that for some reason headmasters and education consultants are suddenly recommending Winchester College because it is seen as slightly easier to get into than Eton or Westminster (or apparently even Brighton College or Sevenoaks!). But the point being that the recommendations should be driven by what is best for the child and not driven by entry requirements. It should be based on current best fit and nothing else.

Thank you for writing this post. As a family we are still coming to terms with our experience at the school.It's not something that I would wish for any family. The OP has other options, I hope she takes them.

My edit didn't work,

It's not something that I would wish for any family.

Sorry to hear about your experience @Jabberwocky8 - I hope you all heal in due course.

The majority of boarding schools have invested very heavily in pastoral care and well being over the last 5-10 years in particular. Sounds like this one may have some catching up to do. But surely it cannot be that difficult to hire a few head of pastoral care and really good in-house support to catch up if it is such a problem. Physical and mental health is the bedrock of any child’s education. If you don’t get those right then who care about academics? Those are secondary on the chart of self fulfilment.

I have two DS in the upper years at WC, and both are very happy. No teen is without a few minor issues, but our housemaster has been excellent at helping them through. The teaching is largely very strong, and the dons do care and foster an academically elite, thoughtful atmosphere. Sitting with my DS at supper is an education of itself (for me!) now as they can debate, listen and converse with charm and insight (admittedly a mum’s view, so very biased).

That said, we do know of a few boys who have left. Boarding isn’t for everyone and Winchester academically demands a pretty motivated boy who likes learning: the boys we know who have left due to issues with academia were the heavily tutored boys who really shouldn’t have been sent there as they weren’t the right fit. One of the ones that left for a more “gentle” boarding school has since left there too and is at day school.

We turned down Eton as Winchester suited my DSs more, and the prep school they attended are sending quite a few boys to Winchester next year who have also turned down Eton and (in one case I’m told) Westminster, so I think the “tier” rating has to be taken with a pinch of mumsnet salt. It is a fantastic school and we have no regrets, but it has to suit your son.

We turned down a Westminster offer for Winchester, and have no regrets. We're delighted with our decision - academically, pastorally and for everything it is giving our DS. I'm sorry other boys have not had the same experience...I know through my other DC how hard that is.

'The boys we know who have left due to issues with academia were the heavily tutored boys who really shouldn’t have been sent there as they weren’t the right fit'. How do know this?

There was often unpleasant gossip in our house after a boy left. The matron was the main culprit, DS always took it with a pinch of salt. They seem to take it so personally there.

The A level results were disappointing for quite a few boys last year, we know of some who missed their offers..The pastoral care in our house wasn't great but perhaps we were unlucky. We wouldn't .chose Winchester again, it's not easy to admit that when you consider the fees. DS would have achieved his grades at any school. I do wonder how the parents with DS's who achieved B/C and even D's in some case feel after five years at Winchester. University advice was also weak but luckily DS didn't rely on them for that.

I agree with @Araminta1003, s school needs to get pastoral care right. We found that it had a culture of 'cover up' , that is never healthy.

How do I know that? To be honest I think it is quite obvious when it happens. I am sure you also know of a similar cohort if you come from a prep school background. We all know kids who are tutored heavily and then struggle when given less support - it isn’t their fault, and it requires a different kind of parenting that doesn’t work at boarding school. No disrespect to your son who I am sure had a tough time for other reasons.

No secondary school is perfect but we are very happy with our decision and I think my DSs will come out with both great grades AND a balanced thoughtful approach to life.

@CutieCommoner Do you work at the college?
Your tone is very aggressive and unnecessary so in my opinion.

Nope, but I sometimes wish I did as the fees would be less… Apologies for coming across as aggressive but I think parents like me are getting frustrated by the frequent bashing of WC which I feel has been excellent for my DSs.

To be fair the poster has a point. There have been contrary views robustly and fiercely expressed on this thread too.

I think the thing that can feed some very diverse opinions is that Winchester has always been trying to do something a little different from other “ similar” schools. It is well-known that Winchester focuses less on preparing the pupils for the mainstream examinations than other schools, in favour of a broader and deeper scholastic approach. The vast majority of pupils continue to achieve very highly in these examinations regardless; however it is a pertinent consideration when making broad-brush comparisons. Some will entirely appreciate this approach and others will understandably be more focused on, and gratified by, an approach which prioritises“ bankable” grades. But it does mean that saying “ I know people who got better grades elsewhere “ or “this school got more A’s ” or similar is entirely missing the point of a Winchester education. Some people get the approach and others don’t; some pupils flourish in that style of teaching and others don’t. It just requires very honest appraisal of what would best suit your son. Inevitably, sometimes poor fits occur.

It is also a heavily House oriented school and this will open up the possibility of disparities in pastoral experiences. Many boys and parents I know of are extremely satisfied - though I am enormously sympathetic to the posters who have had negative experiences on here and would not wish to diminish that. It is a significant investment and our dcs are priorities for us as parents.

There have been challenges thrown up in recent years in the face of change within the school and questions around intake about the time of the pandemic for a school that attracts and draws heavily on an international cohort and body of applicants; but to say Winchester is comparable in its academic standard and offering to second tier schools is to miss the point entirely. In terms of the way their scholastic grounding is approached, I know many Oxbridge fellows who consider it a particular privilege to teach a Wykehamist. However it is different, and admittedly not for all.

… and I didn’t see this poster as the most aggressive on this thread .

@Calliopespa- I think a lot of us understand the notion of a “scholastic” approach, but if we are going to be honest here, parents expect both if they are paying 51k per year and counting. Westminster manages both- why can’t Winchester? There must be an attitude and disdain towards public exams amongst some of the teaching staff if clever boys are not getting straight 9s. Or just lack of supervision from the top and complete exam focus. It does not take that long to get boys/now girls too into exam mode and really understanding the mark scheme. It is a game well worth playing. You can still do Divinity on top of that and foster the critical, independent mind. However, if you don’t play the game in life, you pay.

Like I said pastoral issues or boys falling through the cracks- if the problem is acknowledged it can be easily sorted with the right will and staffing and some structural changes.