BAFTAs - discussion for black/brown mumsnetters

[BigOldBlobsy]

This is obviously a very sensitive subject, as it involves the impact of racist language and disability.
So, I’m making this thread for MNers who are black or brown, brown because brown people have been referred to as the N word as well historically and may want to weigh in.

for any who don’t know, the summary is, a well known disability advocate who struggles with Tourette’s, and is part of the film ‘I swear’, was at the BAFTAS, and involuntary ticced the N word at two black male actors.

there is already a nearly full thread, with lots saying that people shouldn’t be offended as this is involuntary.

I completely agree that tics are involuntary and that Tourette’s is such a difficult condition to struggle with. However, I disagree that you can’t be offended and that it can’t be experienced as racist still, even if unintentional!

I hate the 'oh you choose to be offended' crowd. I just ended up hiding the first thread as I presume most of those passionately arguing against anybody taking offence are simply racist.

I think the bulk of the criticism needs to be aimed at the BBC who made an editorial decision to air it. Also irrespective of whether it was intentional or not Lindo and Johnson would have felt embarrassed (even if not offended). It's embarrassing for something like that to happen to you but it's not like most commenting that 'there really is nothing to be offended about' would be able to get that as there is no comparable situation they will ever be in.

But back to the BBC - really poor on their part.

And I absolutely agree things can be experienced as racist even when unintentional / not designed to cause offence. Even if you don't feel deep offence you can still view it as racist.

I agree with you. Those words will still have had an impact on some people, that is totally being ignored, which I feel is just being dismissive of those people affected by such language, which is just typical, imo. There should be serious questions directed to the BBC who saw fit, to take their time, to edit out the offensive word, when they were quick to cut out the bit where a person mentioned 'free Palestine'. That is where the attention should be directed, I feel. There is no excuse for letting that go out like that.

I’ve just seen that there are a few threads running about this, apparently there’s a very offensive thread on this board already, something about ‘Monkeys in cages?’ - will need to have a look as I don’t really want this thread to turn into anything horrific (can’t control that).

You can recognise that someone meant no harm/could not control their behaviour and yet still be impacted by this behaviour. The two are not mutually incompatible.
How many threads are there on MN where some poster is offended or upset by the behaviour of a ND/SEND child against theirs, but are still able to recognise that the child could not control this and had little autonomy over how their disability is manifested.

Why is it difficult for some people to show empathy to two sides. Both sides have been negatively impacted. It’s not a competition, it is just a call for recognition of this.

You can recognise that someone meant no harm/could not control their behaviour and yet still be impacted by this behaviour. The two are not mutually incompatible

A lot of people really struggle with this concept.

Thanks for making this thread. I never come here as I am not black and never been subjected to the N word. But I am brown and have been subjected to the P word.

It's a light work day, so I spent way too much time on another thread about this. I believe all fault lies with BAFTA and the BBC, not Davidson. But I am also angry that the impact of the N word is being minimised. Posters on the other thread are actually arguing that the N word isn't that offensive. Easy when it will never be applied to you!

I’ve just seen the other thread, and yes, I can see the point about the wording.

@JHoundIt is a shame they can’t, this sort of polarised and extreme thinking is what stops useful conversation about a lot of things.

Why is it difficult for some people to show empathy to two sides. Both sides have been negatively impacted. It’s not a competition, it is just a call for recognition of this.

I have hidden a couple of threads about this topic, as the few comments that I had the misfortune to read, just were not good for my equilibrium. I have found that people seem to lack any empathy, in the main, when it comes to things that affect black, or brown people sadly.

OH yes - people who will never have it said to them insisting that it's really just 'not that offensive'.

Somebody even tried to argue that "I am sure Lindo / Johnson say it all the time themselves" like....what?

I think this is very true from a like of white commentators I have seen. I strongly believe if Davidson were a black Tourette's sufferer shouting racialized slurs at yt presenters, there would be a distinct lack of empathy.

Yes, there’s a lot of mental gymnastics going on about how the word itself isn’t an issue unless you make it one. Hmmm.

@CharlotteRumplingno worries, I’m mixed ethnicity black and Asian, so have had both the N word and P word said, depending on who is looking at me in what context! All this talk of the N word not being offensive is like when people used to say ‘P word is only short for Pakistani, what’s the issue’

@LadyKenyaYes, I’ve had to come off the other threads. Full of people who are unable to consider two concepts at once and imagine that, shock horror, both might be true to varying degrees!

Yes, I am sure that some people will be double quick to point out, that some black people use that word, totally ignorant of the fact that it is not being used in the way, that it has historically been used by others. But anything to minimise what has happened in this instance.

I also feel really sorry for Hannah Beachler, the black woman production designer of " Sinners" who tweeted about her mixed feelings at the ' apology" when called the N word as she was heading to dinner. Now she is being lambasted on X as a 'victim'.

She will never have this evening again. She's allowed to feel sad.

Right. That night will always be tainted by what happened. Her joyful moment could not just be that, how sad.

First it’s making a MASSIVE assumption about both men but it also shows a shocking lack of understanding of how consent works.

Which is especially shocking from a board full of women.

That’s the worst thing. You just want to go and receive recognition for your work. Instead you’re confronted by racial slurs at a work event and even speaking about the experience in a negative has you facing more abuse.

This isn't an exact parallel. But I have noticed young women often call each other " bitch" affectionately.

Obviously if their male boss calls them bitches in a meeting, it's different.

And if I knew I had a condition that resulted in that level of behaviour and I had zero control over it I would not have attended in the first place.

We know how it is though. A black Woman having the temerity to complain about something horrible that has happened to her. Tsk, did she not get the memo?

I think the parallel is perfect actually and I think it’s an example people get. It’s only when the topic is black people that people struggle to understand.

Reading the other threads is so disheartening. It seems like people have decided that if you are offended by the N word (intent or no intent) then you are saying that disabled people should be locked away! Absolutely not. Most people with basic empathy can understand that Tourettes must be a horrific thing to struggle with but yes, still not nice to hear as a black person and yes, still an offensive word whether there was context or no.
And then to be abused because you raise this point. Shameful.

The N word has no parallel.
Even the P word doesn't have the same ugly history.
I don't know why people feel offended by this. It's not saying black people are always right or that JD was racist.
It's just the impact of the word.

I expect no less, when it comes to horrible things that happen to black, or brown people. There is less sympathy, or understanding, and if it can be turned around to blame the black, or brown person that it happened to. You can bet your bottom dollar, some will try! I am finding Mumsnet to be a place, where I feel increasingly that racism, and the defence of it, is becoming more overt, as time goes on.

Agreed - to both of your points @LadyKenya@CharlotteRumpling
Anytime there is a thread about racism, or potential racism, it seems to immediately become full of people insisting that nothing can be racist unless someone has actually said the N word. Well, now someone has (admittedly, out of their control, and again, distressing for them too) but the bar has shifted again. I’m sure the bar will continue to the point that it can’t be racist now unless someone is beating you up and also saying the N word.

What MNers can’t seem to understand also, and this isn’t linked to JD actually as it’s not relevant to his particular situation, is that you can behave in a racist way, not actually mean to be racist, but still perpetrate racism!

Absolutely hurt on both sides of this.
The BBC should not have aired it.
Have any of you seen the film ?