Racial harassment in the suburbs

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I am a black British born 2nd gen living in London.

I am in my 30s, no kids, married, husband is also black but not British.

We recently moved to the suburbs, South London. Zone 4.

We bought a wreck of a house in a “naice” area. We’ll never be able to afford to move again so this is very much our forever home. To cut an extremely long story short, our neighbours have begun using the council system against us in an attempt to stop/slow down our building work. Objection letters to the council, noise complaints etc, you get the idea. We are not undergoing extreme work, a loft dormer, back to brick inside. This seems to have riled all the neighbours, there are 5 other houses on the street all undergoing similar building work too, they have not had any complaints or objections. We are the only black family undergoing work.

I guess what I’m asking is: if you have experienced something similar, can you please drop your story in here? I am in no way interested in being bullied out but I am feeling extremely resentful towards them all, especially as all the complaints have been anonymous but everyone is still smiling in my face….

The live out landlord (we’re semi detached) has sent us numerous text messages with language of “this is just what we do in this country” and all that crap. When we got here several of the neighbours were very interested in what we did for work and I’ve been around the block long enough to understand what they were actually asking. I’m in no mood for gaslighting so do not try and tell me they “are just curious about their new neighbours”.

It’s made me look at my life and realise that I do not want to raise children here, I’ve dealt with this my entire life and I think this has just pushed me over the edge. I grew up in a majority black area and this is my first time living in a majority white area.

How did you deal with your situation? Kill them with kindness? Ignore them? Move?

Note: I am only interested in replies from other black people living in the UK. I acknowledge many other minorities experience discrimination but being black in the UK is a unique experience that only other black people will understand

Nothing to help but I experienced similar when I moved to an extremely white area for work. Lasted 3 years of always feeling alien(despite having lovely work friends) and moved back home to my diverse area.
When you have that subconscious feeling of racism it’s hard to shift and feel ‘safe’ again x

Honestly I haven’t left my not-so-“naice”-but-quite-diverse area for exactly this reason. Where I live was very Black when I was growing up, but as the years have gone on much of the Black community have moved away and the area is more Eastern European now. My youngest faces plenty of racism from them so we are going to have to move soon. At least they’re blatant with it though, so we know where we stand. I find that white Brits (especially middle class ones in “naice” areas) are top tier gaslighters when it comes to racism and I just can’t stomach that.

I have no advice. One of my aunts moved to a very white area, well known for their racism (literally a Reform constituency). She has always had the “fuck em” attitude and takes up space wherever she goes, and she’s one of the happiest, most relaxed people I know. I try to channel her energy but I just can’t seem to laugh it off like she does!

Thanks for replying. You’re exactly right, I no longer feel “safe”, despite coming from an area with actual crime!

I wouldn’t recommended a move to the suburbs to any black family after all this, I understand why you haven’t left. Sorry to hear about your youngest, always ironic when you hear racism with an accent!

I have an aunt just like yours, she married an Englishman, moved to the countryside and does NGAF about the stares, glares and comments. Her kids, culturally, do not have a link to their black side and I can already see the anxiety that’s causing.

There’s no easy answer to any of this is there.

I'm really sorry and very very surprised by your experience in zone 4 south London, where I have also lived. This happened to some acquaintances of mine. They were doing nothing wrong, just renovating a house, they refused to be driven away, blanked the neighbours and eventually the fools moved away. I hope it gets better for you.

I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're going through this. It's a piss take.
I live in a very white area, but when I moved here my disability was visible so the questions were more about that than race.

Now I'm no longer use walking aids, I get the occasional nonsense. I tend ask why exactly they think whatever they're saying/doing.
I once had a lady ask me if a mango was ripe and when I asked her why she thought I would know that,
the stuttering was quite amusing.
The idea of being called racist seems to be worse than actually being racist to some.

Even without any specific issues, it's been difficult being "the peppercorn in the salt" (as my gran would say) and if I had kids, I wouldn't stay here at all.

My suggestion for you if you want to stay there is make sure everything you're doing is legit, and when they're smiling in your face having "neighbourly convo", say something along the lines of "someone appears to have an issue with us doing X even though number 25 and 28 are doing the same thing.

I just can't figure out why. Do you have any idea why that could be?" Let it sink in that the difference is being noticed.

Sorry you are experiencing this. My advice would be this, if you want to stay then don’t let ANYONE chase you out. This is what they want to do. You put your foot down eventually they will fall back.
We used to live in an area where it was predominantly white. We would go into the supermarket and be the only black ones there. We shopped same way. Years later (we’ve moved now) the amount of diversity in that area is immense. They all fall in line eventually.

Similar experience to yours. Bought in a six bed house in an ‘exclusive’ area which needed a lot of work. During renovation I was asked how I could possibly afford the property, what I do for a living (have retired), what does my husband do (long time divorced) and isn’t the house too big for me. Even the builders were shocked at the comments.
A retired (white) neighbour and his wife stopped me in the street and advised me not to invite anyone into my home. Just enjoy my property. I have lived here for nine years now and offer you the same advice. Enjoy what you have worked hard to buy and keep everyone at arms length.

Sorry you're going through this OP. I bought in zone 3 south London last year - I'm grateful that there is diversity here.

In your shoes, I'd kill them with kindness. The next time you bump into Mavis:

"I find the complaints very strange. There are at least four other neighbours doing similar work. I'm not sure what makes us different. We never had this in [insert diverse area here]. The people were very open and welcoming."

If you both feel you'd be happier in a more diverse area, it might be worth looking into further down the line.

Currently in a diverse area but grew up in a Zone 5 area which was predominantly white at the time (80s/early 90s) and out of necessity developed an attitude much like your aunt @ItsUpToYou which has held me in good stead for much of my life. Hold your head up high OP, don't allow yourself to be bullied and don't fall into any traps where you can be labelled as "aggressive" as thats the oldest trick in the book. Make sure you are aware of your legal rights. Keep a log of everything and don't be afraid to report harassment if necessary. Keep your wits about you and deal with everything by the book, once they realise they're dealing with an intelligent person they won't know what to do with themselves.

Apologises for the super late reply and thank you for replying.

Very interesting the advice you got from a fellow neighbours regarding not letting anyone in your home, we’ve had a few of them say how they would “just LOVE to see what we do with the place” and I thought to myself since when do you just invite strangers into your house?! The audacity has been staggering.

I reckon the novelty of only black family will wear off in time as long as you’re not inviting drug posses into the hood!

When we moved to our predominantly white area over 12 years ago the neighbours were mostly friendly although one man would openly look at me but never say hello. I think there was some interest in what work we did in
the way that I don’t think is a consideration with white neighbours.

Dh is good at interacting with them, exchanging pleasantries in the street but does NGAF and is happy chatting yard slang in our garden overheard by whomever.

You’ll eventually figure out if this is a place that’s worth staying at in the longer term.

So sorry to hear you’re going through that. I live in an affluent commuter town with a very low black population despite it being less than 10 miles from a major city. When we first moved here, we got asked questions from elderly people like “are you renting?” which I’m not sure was relating to our race or age!

Overtime, it stopped and we all get on well now. Thankfully another black family have moved in so we aren’t the only ethnic minorities here. I would say keep them at arm’s length and it should improve as time goes on.

Read your letter and thought to myself
That although I've never been in your situation I'd like to contribute if you don't mind as the expression 'Perfidious Albion' kept coming to mind
If I were in your shoes I'd not even piss on them if they were on fire, my mother always called white people pernicious due to their constant effort of trying to appear insincerely amiable whilst absolutely deriding you amongst themselves
With the council complaints its obvious they don't like you there but I myself, would speak to the council and say its discrimination as other houses are having renovations done but nothings being said about them and invite said council to view property/work in progress if they'd like?
You were born in this country?
With the landlord I'd let it be known I was not born in a mudhut somewhere but in good old Blighty itself so therefore I myself, understand the true 'english way' of doing things so don't need excess waffle included in any messages that get sent; just facts
Also I'd keep hold of those messages, could use them in someway though I'm not sure how in the future. Patronising Prick!
Am totally peeved off on your behalf and totally on your side; so could you keep us all updated?
It'd be interesting to hear of your progression in this scenario my Love. Good Luck XXX

I'm not black and not trying to give any advice or anything obviously, but I think as soon as you move to the suburbs or a village etc, you are just at the mercy of whatever dickhead neighbours and their cliques feel like.

I love the idea of quieter areas but I def think that people in cities and town centres seem to be more realistic and mind their own business more.

I am white
When we were doing building work we had complaints
I would be amazed if it is because you are not white

Why are you here?

Surreygirly
Yes why ARE you on this thread?
As per usual the whole general situation which you'll never find yourself in boils down to you only noticing the bit about the reporting of noise to the council
None of anything else

I think it's your landlord making the complaints.

Surreygirly
Why are you on this thread? You obviously have not bothered to read the messages. Read them properly and then leave Black Mumsnetters.