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Black Mumsnetters

This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.

Claudine Gay

17 replies

MCOut · 03/01/2024 21:22

@MNHQ Please remove this from active if it shows up there.

The Claudine Gay resignation. Just a general discussion for any and all thoughts you’ve had around this, even if they’re tenuously related. I haven’t really spent any time reading about this but it brought up knee jerk thoughts around

  • The expectations of black women in Leadership
  • How the black community has been expected to react to the Gaza/ Israel conflict despite being a disparate group. The expectations of us pertaining to social activism in general
  • Wealth being used to apply pressure

This has been posted on Black Mumsnetters, so I’d love to hear any and all opinions from Black women or Mixed race women of black heritage. Those who will inevitably have a problem with this, I register your complaints and would still like to focus on the opinions of those of black heritage.

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DeeCeeCherry · 04/01/2024 03:44

1st Black president and 2nd woman president in Harvard’s 400+ year history. She was only in post 6 months' wasn't she?

It didn't take long for her to be subjected to disgusting racism and allegations of plagiarism - we know that the moment allegations are made about Black Women, they are deemed true

It was a poisoned chalice to start with.

&How the black community has been expected to react to the Gaza/ Israel conflict despite being a disparate group. The expectations of us pertaining to social activism in general

Indeed. Always an expectation. It's tedious and ridiculous how so many want to bring their angst and arguments to Black Women even when we don't want to be involved. They so crave to scapegoat. If your opinion differs from theirs even slightly, if you don't say explicitly and exactly what they want you to say, then thats the end of you. Member of a disparate, oft oppressed group or not. Look how many wealthy people have weighed in against this woman, yet they weren't so visible when she was experiencing racism were they? They didn't care about that but they want to decide what she should and shouldn't state she cares about. They barely gave her a chance to get on with her job.

I wouldn't have touched that position if I were her. Sadly she's had a reminder of the real America.

MotherOfRatios · 04/01/2024 03:47

It's sad about the professor but it's something as Black women we experience a lot as a Black woman working in politics it can be tough.

On Gaza, I disagree it's a struggle against colonialism a free Palestine is liberating for Black people to be freed from colonial systems.

JingleSnowmanTree · 04/01/2024 03:56

@MCOut

its in Active. Mn don't read all posts, so you might want to report your own post & ask what they can do.

MCOut · 04/01/2024 04:06

@JingleSnowmanTree Thanks for the heads up.

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MCOut · 04/01/2024 04:48

100% the role was a white elephant. She was clearly more than capable of doing that given the role she had held previously. However, we know that black women are held to a higher standard, and given that they were always going to find ammunition I think it was unfair to put her in that position with her publication history.

I have friends in academia who talk about outright stolen work, apparently this is a fairly common occurrence so given that the plagiarism (missed citations?) seems like a weak excuse. Ultimately, this seems like it was more about damaging diversity initiatives than anything else.

I would genuinely have less to say if her removal was about the Congressional hearing. What she said, was clumsy much as I do agree, students should be free to express reasonable pro Palestinian sentiments, especially given the situation.

Randomly, this reminded me of the Julianna Margulies comments. It’s by no means just her or this issue, but there is this constant expectation that we must be involved in any and all social activism going. To be conveniently plucked out of pockets when we’re useful for other people. Especially black women.

Another example is the Jews Don’t Count book. He made an interesting argument and I will sit down and think about it more, but I really do resent the way that he used black people and can admit it’s potentially clouding my perspective. Anti-Semitism is important in its own right, so what was the need for this? Has anybody else read it?

I’ve used two examples from the Jewish community but everybody does this. GC feminists, mainstream feminists, transgender activist, environmental activists and it goes on. There is no need to use black oppression and narratives for everything. Especially when the ways in which these issues can impact black women is often ignored.

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LadyKenya · 04/01/2024 09:54

Another example is the Jews Don’t Count book. He made an interesting argument and I will sit down and think about it more, but I really do resent the way that he used black people and can admit it’s potentially clouding my perspective. Anti-Semitism is important in its own right, so what was the need for this? Has anybody else read it?

I have not read this book, no, but I do get tired of people finding black people convenient to talk about when it is to their benefit. I personally have no desire to listen to anything he has to say. His treatment of Jason Lee was appalling, and yet he had the barefaced cheek to talk about black people, to get his point across.

MCOut · 04/01/2024 16:48

@LadyKenya I didn’t know who this man was tbh. I went into it, thinking it might help me understand the Jewish perspective better. It might as well be retitled “I want black privilege”. It was hard to focus on the core points being made, some of which were somewhat reasonable, because it’s so clear he doesn’t really understand, nor does he care to understand racism or its impact.

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DeeCeeCherry · 04/01/2024 18:53

'Jews Don't Count'. Well he obviously does, doesn't he? Since we are meant to forget and never mention, this odious man's racism against a Black man. The fact he is lauded in many quarters throws into the light the utter hypocrisy of selective racism - and those selective racists then going on to tell us what particular racism we should and should not care about.

Every non-Black activist group and wannabe racism spokesperson, bandwaggons Black Women for their own gain. Whilst not caring about nor showing up in support of, any issues affecting us. They crave to hear our voices on perceived White oppression. We need to make sure that they don't. Give them nothing.

LadyKenya · 04/01/2024 19:24

DeeCeeCherry is spot on.

MCOut · 04/01/2024 20:20

Oh he mentions it but it’s very woefully done. He basically says how they treated Jason Lee was racist, he regrets it but that doesn’t mean he can’t speak about anti-Semitism. Nothing really about the consequences for Jason Lee or how bullying like that contributes to structural racism.

Meanwhile, for what feels like a good 70% of the book he dodges any acknowledgement of the privilege which allowed him to get away with it, and throws us under the bus. I think after reading his book when he finally got round to apologising to Jason Lee in person, Jason Lee actually brought up this point.

To hear him tell it, us Black Brits are living the life of riley, enjoying all that great positive discrimination behind our lefty protectors. It’s such BS. In response to posters with brown people on them a significant proportion of this same left switched party. In order to be more palatable to this same left Labour is having to shift attention away from minority rights. Sorry, I know I’m ranting. I’ll stop now. It was just hugely unnecessary oppression olympics on steroids.

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Sagharbor · 04/01/2024 20:26

@MCOut

By "Wealth being used to apply pressure", are you referring to Bill Ackman and other hedge funders bullying Gay out of the presidency based on their billions?

Unless, academia fights back, these right wingers will continue on this march and poison higher education as DeSantis is trying to do in Florida.

MCOut · 04/01/2024 20:30

Re Claudine Gay it is nice to see that there is media acknowledgment that she’s being set up as a scapegoat

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MCOut · 04/01/2024 20:32

Sagharbor · 04/01/2024 20:26

@MCOut

By "Wealth being used to apply pressure", are you referring to Bill Ackman and other hedge funders bullying Gay out of the presidency based on their billions?

Unless, academia fights back, these right wingers will continue on this march and poison higher education as DeSantis is trying to do in Florida.

Exactly that. Also, that it was so blatantly done in a time when we are recognising that these huge amounts of concentrated wealth in the hands of the few is damaging to democracy

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Sagharbor · 04/01/2024 20:37

MCOut · 04/01/2024 20:30

Re Claudine Gay it is nice to see that there is media acknowledgment that she’s being set up as a scapegoat

Unfortunately, only some in the media as a good % thinks that she deserved to be kicked out either because of the plagiarism allegations or the fact that they regard her to have been a DEI hire.

It is so infuriating to see so many belittle her accomplishments without reason. Who said she was a DEI hire? Are we to assume she is a DEI hire because she is black? What does that say about us?

LadyKenya · 04/01/2024 21:25

Oh he mentions it but it’s very woefully done. He basically says how they treated Jason Lee was racist, he regrets it but that doesn’t mean he can’t speak about anti-Semitism. Nothing really about the consequences for Jason Lee or how bullying like that contributes to structural racism.

Mmhh, that is typical, he is able to go on his merry way, all the while monetizing from his vile skits, parodying Jason Lee, and his overdue apology to himHmm

MCOut · 04/01/2024 21:40

But there’s another problem with this language of diversity hires. Let’s be honest race being a part of recruitment decisions is nothing new. It’s just that when a white person is hired they are simply a better cultural fit.

I don’t doubt at all that she’s more than capable but I am also aware that using black women in particular is nothing new. At the time, affirmative action was being attacked, they were getting criticised about diversity and probably wanted to keep the heat off legacy and donor admissions. Reading about it, apparently it was the quickest recruitment in their history. Black women in leadership positions will get attacked regardless of what they so there was always going to be questions.

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Sagharbor · 04/01/2024 21:44

@MCOut

Great point, I hadn't made (nor read about) the link between the AA lawsuit and the hiring of Gay. How awful!

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