“Woke”

[DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz]

Sorry, this is a rant, so if you’re trying to keep yourself in a positive mindset or good space today, skip this thread.

I’m sure I can’t be the only one tired of the overuse of this word. I know it’s been co-opted (and misused) outside of the black community for a few years now, but in all honesty I do live in a bit of an echo chamber in real life so don’t have to hear people use it for any and everything all that often. But I’ve returned to MN after a break of a good few years recently to try and get myself out of said echo chamber a bit, and am honestly so sick and tired of seeing people describe (or worse, complain about) everything remotely liberal as “woke”.

I was going to post this on AIBU because my “racist radar” dings excessively whenever I see the term thrown about willy nilly, but decided against it as I can’t be arsed to explain the nuances and history of the word to WW who are adamant it’s “just a word”, so I thought I’d share my rant here instead. Am I being over dramatic here?

I see it used on MN a lot, but never actually hear it in real life. Bods with small lives who follow the likes of Laurence Fox, Piers Morgan, watch GB news etc and thats where they get their understanding of 'issues' from. I have a picture of a White person uttering the word 'Woke' in my head now it just makes me laugh alongside cringing for them.

@DeeCeeCherry I get second hand embarrassment for them. I would really love to understand what they mean when they say things are “too woke” or complain about the “woke brigade” and the “woke agenda”.

I'm white and this popped up for me so I hope you don't start getting algorithm based shitty replies...but of course you are right. I like to think most people in real life may not be totally clued up on things but aren't so obsessed with culture wars and anti-wokery and all these shit stirring buzzwords that comes out of certain media and online. But I'm probably also in a bubble.

OP is one of those peoples new catchphrase. They use to say "political correctness" or "political correctness gone mad".

@Reugny it’s definitely replaced “political correctness gone mad”, I agree. But my thing is that it’s not a new word or catchphrase; it has been used within the black community for years to describe the understanding of systemic racism and it’s impact, as well as a word representing collective unity. Granted this was more in the US than the UK, but it was still used within particular black circles here. It frustrates me that WP have taken it and turned it into it something negative to use against people.

People who use "woke" to describe people or opinions are saying "I am a fascist". Likewise those who claim to see "virtue signalling". Also "politically correct" and "the [whatever] brigade".

Sorry OP I meant it is a catchphrase to the likes of the people who abuse and misuse the word.

Ohh I get you! Yes, definitely. I just don’t think they even know what they’re saying 😄

I haven’t heard it in a while but it gets on my nerves!! I remember first hearing it outside of it context a few years ago and wondering if I heard right as I spent so much of my late teens reading books and memoirs from the likes of Sister Souljah and other activists. So to hear the word so watered down today is annoying.

I just smile and nod when I hear it now because it’s used incorrectly by all kinds of people.

I agree with everyone that has said it’s another word for being PC - but it’s used so negligently that it has lost its meaning.

Yep, it's used on Mumsnet these days to describe anything that's to the left of Hitler!

See also "playing the race card". Surely if that worked we'd all be playing it everyday??

I agree OP it’s so annoying. I don’t have much to add except that along with it being co-opted and weaponised by the right, there’s a consistent problem with narratives about the black experience being conflated with those of other groups to be used in advocacy. We should all support each other, but sometimes it’s just not appropriate.

I understand it to be Liberal, lefty, vegan crusties that think men can become women because they say they are and that there are 3762289 genders. Those types.

I think it's a difficult subject, the meaning of words and who uses them changes over time. Looking back, the history of many words is one that spans more than one culture/country/etc. Changing use or definition doesn't erase the previous usage, it adds to its history.

I'm aware of the history of the word woke including it's origin, but have no view on your feelings on it. I just think an argument criticising it should be one that both acknowledges the above and explains what's different about this particular example, that makes it an exception that deserves criticism. I've come across good arguments criticising what were at the time new uses for other words, so I accept there may be for woke as well

@DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz

" Liberal, lefty, vegan crusties"

Yes, ignorant, stupid, abusiveness.

The problem is that the word hasn’t just evolved in meaning as language does in time, but as a PP said, has been weaponised against not only black people when used in its original form, but now to any community that the new user of the word doesn’t believe has a right to be heard (e.g. “woke nonsense”).

A word which was originally used to support and uplift black people specifically has been taken for the sole purpose of shutting down people from a number of communities, and it’s frustrating to watch.

Prime example.

I am aware that in e.g. the 1940s an American Black person might be described as 'woke' if they had become aware of (woken up to) or sensitised to issues of justice, but it has become quite popular with right wingers as (1) an insult to progressives (2) a dog-whistle to like minded fascist-leaners. But I can tell the difference usually at the time the term is uttered, based on who is doing the uttering.

@DrinkingMyWaterMindingMyBiz there is a change there, it's become an insult, at least to the speaker or writer. In media contexts it's all about generating emotional reactions & making money of it. You don't even know if a writer really means it, as the language can be driven by management. On a campaign I'm part of, the same newspaper writer's angle on our protests and actions varies as editiors and the wider political context changes. Can't be a coincidence

Every attempt at change meets resistance. I understand the feeling, I don't want to suggest otherwise, it's just that there wouldn't be a need for the original meaning or actions to create change if that resistance wasn't there

So you don't understand it at all then.

You don't understand my reply at all then. I was replying to this:

I would really love to understand what they mean when they say things are “too woke” or complain about the “woke brigade” and the “woke agenda”.

When a lot of people use woke now, they mean:

Liberal, lefty, vegan crusties that think men can become women because they say they are and that there are 3762289 genders. Those types.

Mumsnet is quite happy to use "woke" as a racist or homophobic dog whistle. But use "Karen" and just watch them go. Apparently it's the world insult in the history of insults!

Guys just to let you know this showed in active. I thought yours didn't for understandable reasons

Girl I have just exhausted myself on the Karen thread. I don’t know why I do it to myself every time 😄

@Wwwnothingdotcom thank you for highlighting that.

Does anyone know how I flag this to MNHQ?

Not quite the subject I know, but todays "woke" values, whilst I broadly agree with them, in that no one should be treated differently because of race, religion, etc, have taken much of the humour out of things. I used to love the old stand up comedians, who wouldn't stand a chance today - Charley Browns retort to a heckler "Shut up missus, else I'll move in next door to you!" And Les Dawsons mother in law jokes "we always knew when she was visiting, because the flies on the kitchen window would start swatting themselves". I just wish we could laugh at ourselves together more, and the sexist jokes - "her bosom was so big you could see her 5 minutes before she came around the corner". Actually that last one could refer to me...l.