Did you/would you prioritise MC lifestyle over diverse area?

[whathaveidonetomydc]

I need to preface this by saying I'm white, dc are mixed race and visibly Muslim with Muslim names. Didn't want to post on main board as I want opinion/experience of people who need to consider racial/religious minority issues. Feel free to report if the post is not welcome.

We live in an area of UK where I'm from which whilst it's getting more diverse, is nothing like larger cities like London, Manchester, Leeds etc. Housing is much cheaper and whilst we aren't wealthy we lead a fairly MC lifestyle. The dc are in a grammar school where non white dc make up maybe 5% of the school. These children are very respected, they are high achievers, role model pupils and disproportionately win school prizes etc. Never been any issues and in fact the school bent over backwards to make a prayer room when ds started (he was the first Muslim pupil). All good.

We have a small Muslim community that is very diverse so the dc are used to being around different cultures. It's on a very micro level though. A number of years ago DH decided we needed to be nearer to 'our' people and we rented a house in Birmingham for the summer with the view to move. The area wasn't clean, we were told there was a lot of anti social behaviour and that the secondary schools were rubbish. We couldn't afford private so after weighing everything up came back. Several years later we did the same in Bradford, but for the same reasons as Brum decided to come back. Dh's parents are both dead so we haven't regularly gone to his country, so the dc don't feel particularly tied to it.

We were in London recently for a wedding and I couldn't help but feel very sad that my dc (and me) have missed out with regards to the complete melting pot of diversity. I'm not going to repeat what dd said, but basically they all agreed that they prefer to live in an area which is predominantly white. Both me and DH are very sad about this and feel we have failed them. In our bid to give them a 'better' life this seems to have had a negative effect on how they view people who look like them.

Can anyone relate to this personally, and what can we do? We have spoken about moving to London or even Manchester but this would mean a much smaller home, probably a flat, which the dc would not be happy about.
Any experience and/or views welcome.
TIA.

I don't know if it's about people who look like them as much as it's about the environment. Are there no safe and clean areas with good schools in these diverse places you're looking? I'm sure there are even if not in town.

Metropolitan cties are generally rubbish in that regard anywhere in the world - diversity or not - and everyone seems to go there when looking for diversity, hence it's overcrowded and that comes with its own baggage. They can't be the only diverse area available.

Also have you looked at other places close to the cities you can move to which may not be as diverse but also not as insular IYSWIM? If you find some place like that, I think it's likely that your dc would love it as well.

Oh and... 'MC lifestyle' and 'diverse area' aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both reasonably.

Thank you @SettingsGalore@SettingsGalore. I know they are not mutually exclusive, but from what I have explored it would be out of our price range. Yes it would be possible to go somewhere where we could be on the periphery of a very diverse area, but I'm not sure if that is worth it or not. DH is of the opinion that we should be in the thick of things. One of the things that struck me wrt the 'outskirts' is that the people looking into the areas often view it as a 'ghetto' to be avoided. I don't want them living in a place surrounded by people who think this way.
You're right that every metropolis has its drawbacks. I suppose the purpose of the thread is to ask whether the drawbacks are worth it?

We prioritised economical diversity areas over ethnic diversity. The ethnic areas near us have high levels of deprivation. Being mixed is a double edged sword in most places. You are often too much of something or not enough of something.

Thanks for the reply @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting The areas we have looked at to move are also considered deprived, and that conflicts me too. I totally can see your point about the possible difficulties of being mixed. We are lucky in that our community is diverse so it isn't really an issue in terms of acceptance/fitting in, but our possible choices to move to are much more homogenous in ethnic background which could very much be a problem wrt how our family is looked at.

We have always prioritised ethnic diversity over prerry much everything else. We live in inner london and I guess the only drawback is a lack of garden. To us, a diverse area trumps everything.

I hope you find a solution. I would like my area to be more diverse but I also wanted decent schools and space.

@Lndnmummy thanks for the reply. Can I ask did you grow up in a similar area to what you are in now? You say you have no garden, so I assume you live in a flat?
@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting the school thing is my issue too, secondary school in particular. I have to say that thankfully mine have had a really good experience at their school, I'm now more worried about them going into the workplace and issues they might face. In London my mind was literally blown by how many women in hijabs were working all sorts of jobs, we just don't have that representation here at all, and it must make a difference to see that growing up.

We have always prioritised a decent area over ethnic diversity. I want my children to have the best chances in life. Better areas tend to have better schools, better behaved children, children who achieve more highly, better amenities. What’s the point of being around those who may have your skin colour/religion but there’s a greater chance of them not achieving as highly at a poorer school or falling in with the wrong crowd?

No not at all, I am from another country (a very middle class one with little diversity). I should add though, for full disclosure, that even though we live in an urban area, the schools are good. We have not had to compromise on that. Should I have to make a choice though, it would be diversity over ofsted every single time.

@Fretfulmum are you and your children white?

@Fretfulmum whilst living in a decent, clean area and having good schools to go to is very important to me, so is my dc's sense of cultural/racial/religious identity.
I should add that we are in a state grammar County, so the only alternative is secondary modern where their educational outcomes will most definitely be limited. Eg in secondary modern you can't do science or maths A levels, and the choice and number of GCSEs possible is reduced. It's not a case of me trawling through OFSTED reports and trying to find the 'best' school.

I think if your children are settled in their schools and doing well, the priority now is not to disrupt their education.

@Lndnmummy no we are black.

@whathaveidonetomydc can they get that from your family, spending weekends and holidays with family and friends from your culture/religion, going on holiday to certain places ? There are many ways to instil a sense of culture/race/religion, it’s not just achieved by living in an area with those of similar identity. You may also find that those with similar identity may be wildly different to your family, with different values, upbringing etc.
I find that class trumps race in our friends circles. DH and I work in similar job roles to our DC’s school friends parents, live in similarly sized houses, holiday in similar destinations etc.

You're right that every metropolis has its drawbacks. I suppose the purpose of the thread is to ask whether the drawbacks are worth it?

I suppose it being worth it or not depends on personal values. A relatively decent, peaceful, friendly, safe and clean area is non-negotiable imo and it doesn't matter where we find it. If it's a diverse area, even better but if it happens to be a non-diverse area, so be it. You can always go into cities/towns to interact and mix with everyone, on a daily basis even if you want, and form a thriving network and community. There are more ways to experience diversity, you don't necessarily have to live on the doorstep if you can't find what you need.

Nowhere is perfect and there will always be a compromise no matter where you live. So it depends what really matters to your family in the long run.

I can only speak as a friend of someone with the same circumstances as you . Her children were brought up in our town which have grammar schools and is definitely not the most diverse of towns.TBH it has never been an issue for her children and they have all thrived academically and are happy adults!

@Fretfulmum Snap! Xposted and saying something similar. I agree.

Whilst seeing hijabs in all sorts of place in London is great, that needs to be replicated as normal across the country. I love London but I wouldn't live there (nearby perhaps) again for all the tea in China. To be fair, I wouldn't live in a rural area either.

We have mixed race children. Having them not being othered or feeling different in school is vital to us which has led to our decision not to move out of London. And yes I guess we are middle class. Both of us have grown up working class but are now high earners.

Absolutely this.

Thank you to all who replied on here and pm'd. There seems to be an almost unanimous consensus that area is more important than diversity. I must admit that this surprised me, so maybe I'm over thinking it. I'd still love to live in London, but not sure if we could make it work financially. Does anyone have any London recs for nice, clean, safe, diverse areas?

I agree with @Fretfulmum and @SettingsGalore.

Irrespective of where your DH is from there're people who live in the nicest parts and middle class areas as well as less wealthy areas of that country.

Different classes of people migrate to the UK from different types of countries in different circumstances. Wealthy countries with very low percentage of people living in poverty, countries with higher percentage of people living in poverty, war torn rich or poor countries etc. For example I know of situations where some Ukrainians and Afghans are fighting tooth and nail to continue to be housed in Kensington, Chelsea and Fulham refusing to be moved to boroughs where suitable accommodation is more available (ie 4 bed houses in some cases but remaining in hotels or separate studios and 1 beds indefinitely) and which are cheaper for the council; while there are others who are happy to be moved to East London and Thurrock and Kent. Same nationalities, different goals and values.

At certain periods in history the UK gives different types of access to different countries and that usually determines the situation and class that arrive in UK eg student visas or work visas tend to mean your meet mostly professionals or people with a strong worth ethic, ambitious, speaks English etc. Asylum visas for those fleeing conflict etc different language, dressing etc.

However, even in poorer countries they'll have the wealthy upper and middle classes. Their priority isn't usually to live with others from their country in the UK. They seek where they can progress financially ie career or business and give their children the best opportunities they can attain; if it has a significant number of people from their home countries then it's a plus but usually it will be a smaller number because of class restrictions.

If the priority is to give your children the best education you can so they're prepared for opportunities life brings you can do that and balance it with exposure to their culture and try to find books and documentaries about the types of people in their culture they'll aspire to.

What have you decided to do? @whathaveidonetomydc

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting for now we have decided to stay put. The dc don't want to move anyway, and it would be a bit insane to move them from their great school to a not so great one. As awful as it sounds, I'm very uncomfortable to move them to somewhere that is labelled 'deprived'. We certainly couldn't afford any middle class areas in London. Just to be clear, I'm not seeking an area where everyone is from DHs background or are people like us. I just want somewhere that is more diverse.
People here are generally nice, but not upto date wrt language pertaining to anyone different to them. Ds got his first part time job recently and said as soon as he entered the manager came over and very excitedly said "Oooh you're the first ethnic we've ever had!". She didn't mean any harm, and has gone out of her way to help ds, but it must be so much better to live somewhere where being non white isn't so extraordinary?
Whilst they've never had any issues in school, I worry about them getting jobs if they were to stay here. My dentist was telling me recently that they've had to recruit 2 Indian dentists in the area and the practices have received so many complaints about them, despite them being the most qualified, and patients saying they don't want to see them. It can only be racism and the thought of my dc not getting jobs because of their colour of skin or religion makes me feel sick. In saying that though I follow Black/brown women on social media who are based in London and they talk about racism within the NHS etc so I suppose nowhere is immune to this. What's even sadder is that we did one year in DHs country when the dc were younger and they got bullied in school very badly for being "foreigners" so they really don't fit in anywhere 😭.
We'll just have to do our best, the plan is to save a bit of money between now and them finishing university so that we can hopefully help them onto the property ladder. I would really hope that they will settle somewhere more diverse in the future, but that will be their choice.
Thanks again for all of the replies.

That's good to hear. A great school is that they are happy at is worth everything and will hopefully given them the freedom to choose where they live and what they do amongst other things. I think over time there will be more diverse non deprived areas, I just haven't seem them yet. Racism in the NHS is definitely alive and kicking, I am sad to say but there are still some fantastic medical and support staff who are anti racist. Good luck.

I am very surprised at this. None of my black friends or family feel this way. We are i London and have always prioritised a diverse area over everything else. Or area is not what I would call deprived though and I would resent anyone suggesting that diverse equals deprived.