This just made me really sad :(

[NowAAT]

Currently browsing for our family holiday this year and I found myself googling Is it OK to go on holiday to (Insert every country i'm interested in) if you're black.

Then I go into a deep dive on different blogs/websites to try and find other black people's experience whilst holidaying in said countries.

It's just so sad that we can't freely go somewhere without having the thought that we'll have a different (most likely negative) experience because of the colour of our skin.😥

Hi Op
I know what you mean,
I was talking about this type of thing with my son,

I rember watching years ago Dr Zhigva 1960s film with Julie Christie actress and Egyptian Actor Omar sheriff
It's a epic film based on Russian Revolution and a love story between a soldier ect,
From what u rember,

I rember being intrigued ever since and glimpses on tv of Great train railways Journeys throughout world ,
and seeing hearing about Rasputin (Russian famous mystic story,

who had a strange influence over Russian Queen, and he was was often object of jealousy in Royal family hirechy, ect,
He was murdered cause of his strange influence, cause of his supposed healing power over her child son blood disorder,

There was even a Boney M song called Rasputin

I have been intrigued by one day maybe saving enough money to travel to Russia 🇷🇺 as it transcends Europe 🇪🇺 and another continent,
Until that is, I saw a few years ago a TV programme a well known former children's presenter from our culture present a TV programme about documenting every day day life and what life is like for Refugees and alsp people of colour who have lived their since for at least 40 yrs ago,
Also LGBT community experince,
I was real susprised that there was people from my culture skin colour living there ,

But was real terrifyingly was how nasty people from different culture/our culture are treated in which they are often/allways Marginalised and in constant fear of being physically attacked ect, and the Police just simply ignore this,
It reminded me very much of 🇺🇸 America,

How naive 😒 I was ,

The only difference there, is they don't pretend or put on facade of this Bullshit of American dream of Aspirations type of thing Narrative,
of its Adventure /melting pot ect
When in reality is more like a America 🇺🇸 psychological horror 🎬 movie, the reality of life in America, based on your skin colour,

That Russian TV 📺 programme was a real eye opener 😳 for me,
Crushed my dream of travelling there,

I just knew if the TV cameras were not on former child actor when he was in Russian famous Square,
He would have experienced open hostility even attempts to physically attacks ect.

Oops
Typo mistake
From what I rember

It's not on is it.

You should be able to travel wherever you please in this world. The colour of your skin should not be a barrier. And yet it is.

There's also some countries I wouldn't feel safe travelling to, purely because of my sex, where black men don't have an issue going to.

I realise then Op the scenes u saw back in 70s or early 80s maybe of Boney M stars being feted ect as stars in Russia,

Was only cause they were famous and putting Russia 🇷🇺 on the Tourist map, instead of Russia being percieved by western media bias lenses at that time
(being connected to Cold war /maybe other negative connotations about Russia,
unwittingly cause they were on a tour obviously promoting their music,

It is sad, that as a black person I have to think about where I will, and will not go. We should not have to be worried about how we will be treated, or if we will be physically safe.

Hi Op@NowAAT

I think this is insightful Op thread,

It's sometimes difficult to put your finger on it, this particular issue sometimes

And then with Clarity you can see it for what it really is,

For instance I can deal with fact that I certain countries cause of my ethnicity and people in certain countries, are not used to seeing more diverse ethnicity then I expect and know that for e.g in China people there will think I am unausal so I have read heard that they tend to stare, if someone or something is unausaul /not they are used to,

I can cope deal with that,

But not open hostilities /aggression ect,

I rember talking to a Doctor about he went on holiday to Africa and his children have blond hair
So his children became object of curiosity whilst 🤔 there, travelling he told me about,

But a support worker who has red frizzy hair experienced a situation in middle East Travellor with Partner,
Temporary got separated from him, crossing a rd,
A random middle eastern man became curious about her , started asking her if she wanted ,he could show her around city,
that's when things started to became a bit weird,
As he was being persistent with her about idea of showing around city,

She obviously wasn't 🙄 interested,
Her partner rescued her in time

She said this happened quite often local men noticed her , hazzled her

She thinks it was cause used to seeing only dark hair olive skin complexion people like themselves

I do this as well. Im not paying out money to go on holiday where there aren't any of 'me' and/or racists will bother/attack me or stare or single me out. I wouldn't want people like that to cook for me either, in a restaurant it'd have to be an open and visible kitchen.

Safe and happy and not outnumbered seems ok. I don't necessarily feel sad about it, more resolved. But I can understand those who do

It is sad, but absolutely necessary.

I had the worst time of my life during a holiday in Instanbul. As there were a group of 10 of us, 4 of whom were Turkish, I thought it would be fine.

I was constantly stared at, followed around every shop so closely that if I reached out my arm I could touch the security guards (they weren't discreet about it), men constantly invading my personal space and intimidating, and groped in the street where walking through crowds. One of my Turkish friends was also asked (in Turkish), how much it would be to spend a couple of hours with me.

I've genuinely never felt so scared for my safety in a country, and I was only there 5 days. By day 4, I was refusing to leave the hotel except to go out for dinner, as I was so anxious. This was about 10 years ago, and I hadn't looked it up beforehand, now I always do when going abroad.

Thank you all for the replies. Seems like a common thing for us black people. Sorry that you guys have had to experience this as well.

I agree it's necessary. Kinda wish there was a list of "safe" holiday destinations out there for black people. I try my best to research anywhere I'm interested in but sometimes I can't even find a lot if info.

Like a poster said above I would hate to have spent money to go on holiday only to experience racism.

I've heard a lot of horror stories about Turkey which is the main reason why I wont step foot there.

Any success holiday stories from any of you, where have you been where you've felt "safe" and would definitely go back?

Hi OP

I have been to several places in Europe and find that cities are probably the only areas you might not be gawped at. I try and take my kids but it is an uncomfortable feeling and feels worse when you are with them . I remember being in Italy, not Rome, where people openly stared at us in the town. I mean their eyes followed us. It was a first for my kids as before a certain age they had not noticed it.

I guess it depends how old the kids are a d what kind of holiday you are looking for. For example beach, city, activity etc.

Thanks for your reply.

I get what you mean about the big cities. I try to stay away from small towns where people are less likely to see black people! I went to Barcelona recently and felt so comfortable. No random stares or anything like that.

I quite like relaxing beachy holidays but I also enjoy doing a bit of sightseeing as well. We were actually looking at Rome.

I'm of mixed heritage and have had obvious racist experiences in Budapest. This was a while ago now and it's probably changed with it being a bit city and people being more familiar with tourists.
It has put me off travelling in Eastern Europe though, which is ironic considering my mother's family are all from Eastern Europe!

It's an unpleasant fact of life but yes very much a fact. There are places I'd think twice about going due to being biracial and a woman. I appreciate there are countries people would have to think twice about going due to their sexuality.

For me my worst experiences have been in parts of the Middle East and China. Never been to Eastern Europe.

It's so sad this is necessary. We do this too, with the added search of how mixed race relationships are viewed after experiencing a lot of nasty comments from strangers when visiting family in Jamaica some years ago. There are places that are fine for me or DH to visit separately, but not together.
We found Malaysia to be really good (we've been once as a couple and DH once on his own), and have returned to Southern France (near Bordeaux) for the last few years because it has felt so friendly without any comments or stares. There are always a good number of (French) black people and mixed race couples on the French campsites and in the cities we've stayed within that region.
DH went to Turkey about 20 years ago, and would never return after his experience.

Would you mind giving me the names of the French campsites you recommended?

Campsites can be good but again depends where - we went to one in Rome and it was great fun and a good mix of people but found that the ones staring were Eastern European's. On holiday and only at the campsite. Luckily dcs were very young then and didn't notice. When we were out and about in Rome not body stared at all - but summer time sight seeing in Rome is very, very hot!!

It is also interesting to hear that some mixed race women also find this issue.

Denzelstowel we've liked la Rive best. It has a mix of chalets and pitches. You can book directly with the campsite (it's now owned by Ciela Village), or through Eurocamp or similar companies. We are trying a different Ciela Village site this year a bit further south though, partly for a change of scenery, but also because (rather snobbishly) it was featured in the Daily Mail a couple of years ago, and since then the ratio of French, Spanish, Dutch, and Irish to British has reduced, which has given a different feel to the place. The site has lost some of its very French quirks that we loved in its mission to accommodate the extra Brits, but that might not be such an issue for you depending on what your priorities are (we quite like the locals enjoying watching us struggle with our poor spoken French and refusing to chuck us a bone 😂). Certainly the weather, customer service, facilities, location on the lake, and proximity to the coast is perfect. The good attitude towards us hasn't been site-specific though, so you should be fine on that front picking anywhere in the region that has the setup you're after. We always stay with a family friend a bit further inland in a very rural village too, and no issues there either. We spent a few days in la Rochelle on the drive down last year, which was lovely if you want a stop over.

@SkankingWombat
There are always a good number of (French) black people and mixed race couples on the French campsites and in the cities we've stayed within that region.

Thank you. I will Look at the ones you mentioned - Ive used Eurocamp for Italy. any recent specific recommendations with a good mix of French speaking black and mixed race. Ideally with great weather. I don't really want to feel like I may as well have gone to Butlins not that there is anything wrong with Butlins but not what I want to spend that kind of money on. Sorry if it's the same ones you've already mentioned.