Allies in the work place.

[NurseButtercup]

I've been watching the Gilded Age on Sky, I'm enjoying the episodes I've watched so far with regard to the early development of "professional's and the middle classes, the snobbery between the new money v old money and the rules around social etiquette. I was aghast (but unsurprised) by the casual development of insider trading on the railroads stocks & shares. Plus the costumes & homes of the "new money" family are quite beautiful & fabulous.

But, I'm not sure what to make of how the black female character, Peggy Scott is being treated. I expected to see overt racism & hostility. What I didn't expect was the support she's experiencing from her employer & senior colleague. When it happens I'm joyful & punching the air in victory.

But, I've started to reflect upon my own experience's and the years of micro- aggressions that I've endured. Nobody has ever spoken up for me. Not.once.ever. I've had to battle out BS on my own which has either to resulted in me changing department's or leaving the company. So is it realistic that Peggy Scott in 1800 would have work place allies when I've never had one in my 30+ years of working??

I guess you could say I'm feeling triggered and just wanted to share my thoughts. None of my friends IRL are watching this programme so not interested to discuss this with me.

Is anybody else watching? What do you think?

Fascinating! I haven’t seen the programme but I have been thinking about exactly the question you raise, just this week.

In MN terms I am Very Old. I’ve been through several prestigious universities and professions, both serious and more frivolous. In every single place I have been entirely or almost ‘the only’. In every single place I have had to balance asking for help to be placed on the same footing as others with the same qualifications and avoiding being seen (or described) as in some way ungrateful or disrespectful. There has always been an implication that I am, in some way, the problem.

Let me tell you, this week, for the first time ever, a person with power and influence at an august institution has asked me What I Need To Progress My Career. This has never, ever, ever happened to me before. But I recall hearing my peers, both in the past and more recently - peers who do not look like me - mentioning having similar conversations with senior people. I’ve then watched those peers swoop past me in dizzying upward trajectories. Some are in the House of Lords now.

So yes, I’ve been asking myself how different my life might have been If I Had Been Seen as Others Were Seen.

(Gosh, I really needed to get that off my chest. Thanks for providing the opportunity.)

Will put the programme on my list.

Thankyou for responding and I'm so pleased that you've finally been seen & asked what you need.

I'm really really ready to progress in my career, there are formal systems in place to support my progression. However historically the informal relationship's need to be fostered & nurtured. Looks like I've got a lot of networking to do during 2022.

Please come back when you've watched the Gilded Age, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this character.

I think there often a real disconnect with modern programmes who want to apply better approaches to race to history where the reality would have been totally and utterly different!

I think you might know how different you're life might have been.

You'd be looking down on the house of Lords rather than up at it. Like so many of us deserve.

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to have allies in the workplace as an ethnic minority female. I often read threads on here about being overlooked in the workplace etc. i have often responded that having good social relationships at work can really help to build allies and progress at work. I often get met with responses such as, “I’m there to work and I’m not interested” in the lives of white colleagues or want to partake in social conversation about weekend activities etc. but that is exactly the type of “work” you have to put in to get allies and get ahead. Integration Is key and I can honestly say it’s helped me SO much to progress in the workplace

having good social relationships at work can really help to build allies and progress at work

Did you truly, honestly write that - for other fully grown women, with Oxbridge degrees and professional qualifications, and publications and Fellowships, and decades of life behind them, to read?

You honestly, honestly believe this thread is about not being nice enough to colleagues?

Fuck. Me.

@TottersBlankly, I think @Fretfulmum was just talking about her own personal experience in the workplace, and what she has found useful... if that is allowed.

I haven't seen the show but I have concerns that recent efforts to show positive black experiences or remove offensive words from literature sometimes erase or risk erasing the real, the painful and triumphant racial experiences of black people. I can't offer answers but pretending a black person in 1800s high society had several white allies or didn't experience racism is dangerous and demeans experiences of millions of black people through the ages. To pretend that in 1800s white people did not use the n word (e.g by banning those books rather than discussing why then and how the word persists, etc) can be dangerous erasure

As for work place allies I probably have had a few (self employed most of my life) but those 2 or three I think struggled or avoided the question of race while being aware of it (if you know what I mean)? Was is fairly open and open about her learning. I only worked with her 4 years though

[quote TheDinnerWitch]**@TottersBlankly, I think @Fretfulmum was just talking about her own personal experience in the workplace, and what she has found useful... if that is allowed. [/quote]
Have back your

How could you possibly read the post referred to as anything other than “Instructions for the unintegrated on how to behave in the workplace.”

I, sadly, have been alive long enough to be overly familiar with this line of argument. “If only you would change, you would get on better.”

Even the head of the Bar Council* was moved to acknowledge that it was not my behaviour that was the problem. I think I’m capable of interpreting a MN post without help, thanks.

*Long ago. You won’t know them.

@TottersBlankly sorry but having Oxbridge degrees, qualifications, experience is not enough. This is why there are so many mediocre people in senior positions. Sadly allyship, having the right “friends”, good social connections within and outside the workplace are far more important indicators to getting ahead. I think we all know this- whether it is right or wrong is for another thread

But my point is that one might experience a particular drag on career success even with the right “friends”, good social connections within and outside the workplace!

I’m not an idiot. I know how the world (and particularly the part in which I was born and have lived for six decades) works.

Perhaps we’re just not speaking the same language. And to be honest I have neither the time nor the inclination to rehearse these things in any more detail on a public forum. I’ll leave you to believe / insist that no black person in the UK has properly integrated themselves into society.

@TottersBlankly I didn’t say no black person has integrated themselves. I wrote what my personal experience is to help others who may be reading

I think we are doing all of those things and that is why it is so painful when we do not get to where we should be.

Not making friends, or going to social events etc is not why we aren't occupying the top spots.

It's not us. It's them.

@GingerScallop

I haven't seen the show but I have concerns that recent efforts to show positive black experiences or remove offensive words from literature sometimes erase or risk erasing the real, the painful and triumphant racial experiences of black people. I can't offer answers but pretending a black person in 1800s high society had several white allies or didn't experience racism is dangerous and demeans experiences of millions of black people through the ages. To pretend that in 1800s white people did not use the n word (e.g by banning those books rather than discussing why then and how the word persists, etc) can be dangerous erasure

As for work place allies I probably have had a few (self employed most of my life) but those 2 or three I think struggled or avoided the question of race while being aware of it (if you know what I mean)? Was is fairly open and open about her learning. I only worked with her 4 years though

You have perfectly articulated what was bothering me about this program. Thankyou

@Fretfulmum

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to have allies in the workplace as an ethnic minority female. I often read threads on here about being overlooked in the workplace etc. i have often responded that having good social relationships at work can really help to build allies and progress at work. I often get met with responses such as, “I’m there to work and I’m not interested” in the lives of white colleagues or want to partake in social conversation about weekend activities etc. but that is exactly the type of “work” you have to put in to get allies and get ahead. Integration Is key and I can honestly say it’s helped me SO much to progress in the workplace

Yeah I definitely wasn't talking about what we should do in order to find workplace allies to aide career progression.

I was discussing how this character was being depicted & how her workplace ally was being presented. @GingerScallop has clearly articulated the point I was clumsily, failing to make.