When you have a problem with another black woman at work

[Jamdown123]

I have.

This woman is probably older than me, she's maybe late 40's / 50. I'm 40. I'm just coming back to work after a year of mat leave. I have the obligatory meetings set up, including one with a new manager who joined while I was on mat leave.

So I had problems with this woman before I went on leave. She does not like me, I don't like her either, but I hide it better and it doesn't interfere with my black woman code at work, which is, I don't make life hard for her, I just swerve her. I'm not trying to get any black women sacked to mess up their money / mortgage / life / dependents, it's not that serious. What I don't like about her? several things. She is a bit of an ego-maniac which I think hides insecurity, you can't have a conversation without it being about her very quickly, the having to have one up on others. I don't like that she openly condescends to people she manages, especially when they don't deserve it, are also black, and sometimes older - it just feels so wrong. Her supervisees smile through it, but you can see the angst, it's not what we do. I know this woman just finds the stress of the job hard (we work with vulnerable people) and she is likely a much nicer person outside of work, but come on. And then I think she manages badly, for example, one conversation we had where she said something very wrong and sexist about a woman who alleged rape the nmanaging someone on the case. Just awful, what she said wasn't;t just wrong, it was influential. I did challenge her on this and I do feel this is what prompted her to approach the first manager before I went on leave. but I spoke with my other colleagues and they all agreed I had a duty to speak up and change the narrative because biases really matter in my job.

She has no black woman code. Before I went on mat leave I tried to speak to her about our dynamic, just to bring it back to the centre and she ducked my 3 attempts.

So I'm due to have my first meeting with the new manager tomorrow and today I get an e-mail from the manager saying part of the meeting will be to address concerns this woman has raised to him about me.

I have been gone for more than a year. We haven't spoken in how long. You don't even give me a chance to meet the man, without part of the meeting being about you?

I'm finding it hard to keep the black woman code. Please, I really feel like dropping bombs on this woman when I go back into work. But I keep saying to myself, chill, be the bigger person.

This is a long winded one, I'm not even asking for advice or has it happened to you, I'm just sharing that I feel betrayed, saddened, angry and that I expected more. Either sort it out with me or push on, but going in after so long to a new manager? I'm finding it hard to be the bigger person, and I'm mad that it's another black woman this is going down with.

Alright said. Thanks for listening!

I keep thinking of that scene from Get Out, that yname mentioned.
It's just so right for this!

You sound like a great, normal, down to earth person. By what you've said, it seems that she is envious of you.

I wish people would be happy for others who do well.

OP, this is a woman thing, trust me.

Really hope you come to a resolution with this. But f*ck her!

..and your manager was really unprofessional, imo, to allude to the fact that she wasn't present in the meeting because of you. I'd keep a watchful eye on them, also..

Oh, is this the same person that said that other colleagues sound the BBW (bitchy black woman) difficult?? Yep, yep..keep both eyes open re your boss.

sound=found

Yes, I trust neither. It is a jump to make to assume she did not attend because of me, though I do not know exactly what transpired in the meeting he had with her where she raised her grievances, she may have said she does not feel she can attend meetings with me, or is not comfortable which leads him to say that. in any case, he should have handled it differently.

I trust neither.

Watch out for her tears on his shoulder. She is playing him, and he is falling for it. How long has he been in post?

How do you get on with his superiors? I'm sure that you have an excellent reputation at work. I get the impression that other colleagues respect you.

I have to be honest with you. I have heart attacks and stroke in my family, some have died young. I eschew unnecessary stress. If it got too bad, I would walk. I am confident of a job, I am good at what I do and there is a dearth of suitably qualified people in my profession. I won't do politics for this job. My own business which I am now starting up - yes. This one? No. It's not that I can do better, it's that it's a big sea with many fish.

But I see your points entirely. He is a new manager, he's been in post exactly as long as my mat leave. The woman has been around for maybe 5 years and she has a stinker of a reputation, he's average at her job at best, lots of complaints made about her, they have moved her around the organisation quite a bit because of difficulties with getting on with people, but curiously and yet, she is still there. I'm not up for a long fight, I'll see where the chips lie soon enough.

@Jamdown123 I have never in my working life heard of the black woman code are you serious, is this a real thing?

Just to echo what a previous poster said, start keeping a log of some of the goings on. Perhaps email them to yourself so they’re datestamped. So an email outlining your recollections of your meeting with your manager, another about the meeting she didn’t turn up to. It may serve as a useful chronology one day if it’s ever needed.

Careful, keep notes. This might be bullying / grievance territory if she is trying to force you out of conversations and meetings you should be in to do your job properly or even just to fully take part in office life. (Im not a black woman, but as a woman who tries to support other women at work there are plenty of times you have to put boundaries on that to avoid getting shafted yourself)

I have never in my working life heard of the black woman code are you serious, is this a real thing?

Yes. It is. I'd never heard of it. But I knew it existed. I've always known.

So, yes, she's serious..

Re "Codes".
I used to work in an almost totally white, male, environment. At one time I was the only woman there. It was tough at times, but a few goodies kept an eye out for me if I needed advice.

As other women slowly came into the job, ( they happened to be white, initially) we looked out for each other. It was the sisterly thing to do, in a tough job, where many men didn't think we should be.

After all, the men had been looking after themselves, with their "code" for years.

That's why I think good mentoring schemes are so important in workplaces. Not just for new staff, but for new managers too.

Jamdown It's hard not to stress, but keep your eye on the long game now, means to an end etc. You are more than able in your post.
Professional head on at all times in work.

As others have said, boundaries in place, keep notes, stick with doing your own area of work well. Always work within procedures.

Let her sink now, and new manager flounder. Neither seem capable.

Vent off here, there is always someone about to listen.

I think some people think there shouldn't be any codes, indeed we shouldn't see colour at all. Life is just Kumbaya after all......... When I see other black women at work I should NOT under any circumstances consider how much harder it was for them to land that role than others, how much better they likely had to be, I shouldn't think about the racism they will almost inevitably face at work, I shouldn't at all think about the fact that they are most likely to be subject to redundancy, disciplinary issues at work, and be stifled in their progress and improvement. I shouldn;'t ever use my empathy in attempt to not be part of the problem forth, I certainly shouldn't try to stand with them in solidarity, look out for them, share my knowledge and experience. I should think about none of this, but maybe just admire their shoes or something IF I ever think them at all, after all, what have they got to do with me, another black woman subject to all of that BS, too?

Ugh...

I've just this morning got through all emails and am making a log now. These emails go back more than two years. I'm readying myself for this.

Thanks x

When you log stuff like this it's really a stressful thing to do. It's not you ok? It's the situation.
You were absolutely right to do what you did with this woman. Good on you. Her loss.
Don't think you have to justify yourself on here of all places.

I'm thinking, are you in a trades union? If not, I suggest you join one. You have to be a member for a couple of months, in some, before you can call on them for advice/representation. Most of them now have sections for members who are black, as well as having a women's section. They have officers who will understand and give legal advice re employment issues. (You probably know this already!)

Sort of getting your employment "ducks in a row".

When you've got the "shit file" sorted. Have a break, do something nice, de pressurise. Take care you.

Oh, and don't waste the "shit file" on new manager, it's not for him.
You are looking above and beyond him, if it's needed.
Poker face with him and her.

I am a member of the union actually, but I hadn't even thought about that!

10 years ago I was in a job. Five of us doing the same role, I had the hardest clients, very very challenging, and I knocked it out of the ballpark. Worked my socks off for them, did really well, one of them even named me in their undergrad dissertation as being a help through the process, so lovely. On paper too, I was head and shoulders above my three colleagues (one Sri Lankan, two white British) and doing better than another great worker actually, who was white British. The manager (Indian woman) wanted to bend some rules to make the entire service look better, which would inevitably mean we wouldn't make changes we needed to in order to actually do better. I spoke up about it, most of our clients were working class and black, why should they not get what they deserve? I was on a year long probation, they terminated me two days before the end. Because I had no union membership I had no representation. I learned that day, signed up, and would never now be without union membership again.

Even when you are clearly the very best at work, they can get rid of you just like that.

It's ok though, I got a better paying role very soon after. 1/3 uplift. These people think they are doing you over, but really they are helping and they don't even know it.

It will be the same with this woman. I'm going to be better coming out of this.

You are doing grand. Hope this is helping. Great you are a union member. You can hear me cheering at this news.

Next mission.

Find out how the BME section works, who the officers are, and ditto the Women's section. (Obvs you can be in both) Easiest done online. Don't forget your membership entitles you to free legal advice also! And representation.

If anything ends up in formal grievance/discipline procedures, you are entitled, by law, to be accompanied by a trade union rep ( or a friend). A trade union rep can speak on your behalf, and can witness what's said in these meetings. Also will ensure that procedures and time scales are adhered to. IYSWIM.

Get known in you union. But stick to what is a manageable task, don't spread yourself too thin.

Yearly, there will be a union school for the sections, at least. (They have great creches at these schools) Great to meet others, share experiences, a bit of morale support. Network too! It doesn't cost you either.

Management are often very wary of upsetting an active trade union member ime. They know you have back up.

You could even ring your Officer for some informal advice on this, you can be more specific than on here, and it's in confidence.

You've got this x This time next year, it will be better times, for sure.

(Sorry for any typos, juggling something else here too)

You've got this.

That's such great advice, I will follow it. Thank you!

You are welcome. I spent years doing this stuff.
We're willing you on here, drop back and let us know how things go, if you get a chance x

I hope everything works out. I agree with others; watch your managers actions, words , behaviours and agenda.

Get known in you union.

This part is very important - befriend the union rep.

So if s/he can't attend with you because they would have to support both of you and her, then you will know this in advance.

Also if you have any long-term medical conditions that could be viewed legally as a disability make sure they know as soon as but definitely not before they hit you with her grievances formally. If they then want to get rid of you they have to pay you more to go.

The same union rep should not represent both parties though.

Not fair on the rep, nor Jam, nor Ms. Decoded.(I'd be surprised if she was a union member, just a hunch)

There should be two different reps/officers involved, ( if needs be) as a matter of best practice.

I'd advise that Jam talks things through now, informally, with the BME officer via local office, just to be clear what to do should events escalate. (Which I hope they don't). Doesn't have to be the BME officer though, Jam knows her own union best, and who is a good rep etc.

I'd also advise to get a copy of the grievance and disciplinary procedures, and other relevant workplace procedures. Get familiar with them, and how they are supposed to work. HR will have them.

Ducks in row, employment wise. So if shit happens, you know what to do in advance. Especially with new manager man. A lot of managers don't know their own procedures. What I've read about him here, suggests that he's a drawer short in the filing cabinet.

Great point re Disability Red