Is it nearly impossible to use a smartphone photo for a passport if you have dark skin?

[BlackAmericanoNoSugar]

Both DC have UK passports that have expired and I'm trying and failing to upload a photo of DD that is acceptable. The first few it was auto zooming in too far so that it was all face and hair and then complaining that there was no contrast with the background. I made DD scrape her hair back, then it refused to accept it because it said it was too dark or too much shadow, but it was taken in good light. She is, however, quite dark skinned so I'm wondering if it's failing on that. There is an option to continue with the photo if I think it's actually ok and the system has mistaking failed it.

It has been reported in the media before that the system is designed not to recognise black skin.

I see if I can dig out the article but a black woman had her photo rejected because it said she was smiling when she wasn't.

I suspected they have now modified the system for black and brown people to allow them to upload photos.

This is an article about it from the New Scientist which isn't originally where I read it

• www.newscientist.com/article/2219284-uk-launched-passport-photo-checker-it-knew-would-fail-with-dark-skin/

Thanks RedMarauder, I might go and have it done at a photo place so that I'm as sure as I can be that it meets requirements and then just submit it anyway if it fails the auto check. I thought it was me, I took loads of photos and DD was getting irritable about it.

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar

Both DC have UK passports that have expired and I'm trying and failing to upload a photo of DD that is acceptable. The first few it was auto zooming in too far so that it was all face and hair and then complaining that there was no contrast with the background. I made DD scrape her hair back, then it refused to accept it because it said it was too dark or too much shadow, but it was taken in good light. She is, however, quite dark skinned so I'm wondering if it's failing on that. There is an option to continue with the photo if I think it's actually ok and the system has mistaking failed it.

There is a known problem with this facial recognition system when it comes to recognising darker skin shades, that’s why they have provided a manual check option.

I experienced this issue renewing my passport in 2019. Trying to use the auto-option, it kept telling me I had to remove my sunglasses before my picture would be accepted

In the end I had to go to the post office to use their service to help me fill it in manually, and send it off from there.

I make it a point of never signing up for any facial recognition services, as I don't trust them to recognise people with dark skin effectively.

I didn't have any problems using my smartphone. I think you probably need to take the picture in a very well lit area to eliminate the shadows. I renewed my passport with no issue at the beginning of 2020.

If it helps my skin tone is similar to the presenter/comedian Judi Love.

There are loads of news articles, particularly in the US, of black people and other non-white ethnic minorities being wrongly identified due to flaws in the algorithms in facial recognition software.

There are also articles in data science, computing and other STEM magazines/sites recognising that the problem is due to the make up of the teams making the algorithms. The teams are mainly white and male. When the teams are more diverse they ensure they use more diverse people to make up the algorithms.

I use to refuse to go through e-gates with my passport for years after they were introduced as it was known they couldn't recognised anyone who wasn't white.

Yes! Last week tried 30 pics! Ended up going to Asda to do it.

If you have a Timpsons shoe repair place near you they do passport photos. C. £8 for 4 and guaranteed to be accepted or they redo them.

There is a Netflix programme which touches on this, smart devices not recognising black faces and not being designed for black skin. Can't remember what I was called. Absolutely shocking

Tbh it's not a great system. It took us hours and hours to get a picture of dd it would accept and even then it was only a possibly acceptable. It asked why should we accept this picture and dh typed 'because it's the best we can do!'. Dd is white and very fair skinned indeed. So I can well believe it won't work.

Timpsons do good passport photos and check they meet requirements.

I'm white with white hair and their system couldn't distinguish my hair from the white background I was using.
Like a PP I used the override on the submission system and explained that white hair on a white background was never going to show up.
They accepted my photo.
See if you can use that override option (sorry, can't remember the details)

I'm white with white hair and their system couldn't distinguish my hair from the white background I was using.

I'm white with silver hair and I need to renew my Irish passport, also online. So that'll probably be more fun then. Although I don't know if they do online recognition or have a human check it when the application is received.

I just hope they match the right photograph to my passport. The last time I renewed, I opened the passport to have a look and there was someone else's picture in my passport. At least I realised straight away, it could have been awkward if I hadn't noticed and tried to travel on it. Like the time we were coming home from the far east and the check in lady kept referring to toddler DS as 'she', it turned out that his passport said he was female. We just instantly dropped the subject in case we weren't allowed on the plane.

DS isn't as dark as DD so will hopefully get through the photo approval. Although I may never find out as trying to photograph him is like trying to contain an octopus in a string bag. He just keeps slipping away from me, either his hair isn't 'right' or he's late meeting a friend or he needs to go to the loo urgently (and then slips away afterwards).

Thanks for raising this as an issue. My dd had many attempts before her pic was accepted. In the pic that got accepted, the lighting is such that she looks white. I’m worried this could cause problems in the future.

@ContessaVerde

Thanks for raising this as an issue. My dd had many attempts before her pic was accepted. In the pic that got accepted, the lighting is such that she looks white. I’m worried this could cause problems in the future.

Its sheer bloody incompetence and lack of care in testing and developing software. Its in just about every skin tone recognising technology until enough people complain about it to embarrass companies into change. There is absolutely no excuse for it - just an entrenched assumption about the default person.

See also automatic hand detecting soap dispensers which only work on white skin.

You can make a reflector to help. Cover a large piece of cardboard in tinfoil and the subject holds it out of shot but reflecting light back up at their face to minimise shadows and increase contrast.