Career advice to a young black male

[purpledagger]

We've recently taken on a temp and he keeps talking about how ambitious he is and that he wants to progress in his career. He's not a brilliant performer, but I think if he focussed, he could probably do okay.

Performance aside, the bigger problem is that he just doesn't know how behave appropriately in a work environment and he'll never progress because of that.

Examples include - both verbal and written communications are littered with slang and wearing a hoodie (hood up) on a Skype call. To give you an idea, if Vicky Pollard and Ali G had a child, it would be him. We work in the public sector, so our office isn't highly corporate and we are very diverse, but this person is well outside of our tolerant norms.

I'm a black woman in her 40s who grew up locally to him, so I get it to a certain extent. The problem is that he had no self awareness as to how he comes across and this will hold him back.

He doesn't report to me, but we will be working on a project together soon. I just feel like I want to tell him why he's unlikely to progress.

What would you do?

I've worked with the public sector and a lot of people in senior positions are allowed to be 'alternative'. Maybe the public sector is more inclusive or maybe the profit drive in private organisations make the environment there more homogeneous. Whatever the reason I've experienced far more 'alternative' characters in the public sector workplace. I'm sure you must've had some 'grungey'colleagues in your time? @purpledagger

Like the example @JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn gave your young colleague should be able to be his authentic self in a public sector environment and I've supported junior colleagues to do that... But I'm a hypocrite because I personally suited up and conformed to get ahead, and real talk I'll probably encourage my dd to do the same as me.

I’m torn now
The professional image /stereotype seems to be white male middle class.

Obviously that’s wrong but like pp said I’ll be telling my dc to confirm and I feel like a hypocrite.

It's really not about living up to some 'middle class, white, male' stereotype, surely? Young people in every country in the world, throughout all of history, have been offered mentoring and guidance by their elders as to how to behave in the adult world of work. It seems absurd to suggest that the only circumstance where a young person may not receive such guidance is if they are black - because 'diversity, innit'.

I agree, I would give the same advice as I would to my children or nieces and nephews. There is an alternative style / grunge that has always been acceptable. But African Caribbean street style and dialect, I don't think corporate or civil service will see many senior manager roles maybe admin, customer service yes. It is ok to advise the younger generation to be themselves but it has to be within context and part of that is truth that being themselves if street style or street talk may close doors that they are more than capable of walking through. Many of those advocating for let them be themselves should consider that there are times when we can and cannot be ourselves depending on the industry we want to work in and we should be honest with our children.

@Rummikub

I’m torn now The professional image /stereotype seems to be white male middle class.

Obviously that’s wrong but like pp said I’ll be telling my dc to confirm and I feel like a hypocrite.

Not at all - I worked in the city for years and there were a lot of senior managers who were black and Asian (mostly male mind you) from the U.K. and abroad.

We were all expected to be ‘professional’ - the way we dressed (smart, clean business wear, infusing one female manager who wore Vivienne Westwood suits, so not all ‘boring old white middle class guy clothes’), and interacted with people. That’s not a race or class issue, that’s being ‘professional’.

The people we did have trouble with were those who had an attitude - dropped tools dead on 5pm, rude to directors (nah, can’t do that for you - I leave in ten mins), or were not conscientious or considerate (not checking things properly). One man worked for me - would say ‘I don’t want to take that brief - can’t you do it’ (to me, his manager), Or huff and puff loudly when given a brief (and this was from very senior people) and was very negative (‘nah’ instead of ‘well we can’t do it that way. But if I do it this way we can get xyz’. He never really ‘got’ that we were there to work for others and was quite rude - people get upset when dealing with someone who looks like they really down want to be there.

As I say to DS - it’s about being appropriate (you aren’t going the act the same way in front of the vicar as you do with your friends). It’s not about ‘confirming’ - why kick hard against ‘the system’ - you won’t ‘get on’ in that business if you are seen as difficult or someone who challenges every thing (unless you are a true genius talent)? You won’t change anything unless you get to a high enough level to have a voice. If you hate it, why be these? If you want to get ahead, then watch and learn. Yes, play the game and have an end goal.

Sorry that did become a side rant about attitude!

In my experience the person in this picture is acceptable in the office place

In my experience the person in this picture is not acceptable in the office place

In my long past experience the very pretty person in the second picture would be put at the front desk, (in a suit) to greet clients and take coats. They would never, ever get anywhere near the fee earning floor.

But I hear times have changed ...

Unfortunately times haven't changed @MayIDestroyYou

I've been working with both types of person for over 20 years in many different multidisciplinary organisations and to be fair I've seen both face their challenges.

The grungey white girl gets the stereotypes of lesbian, radical feminist or slut.

The hip-hop head black man gets the stereotype of unprofessional or thug.

But in my experience there are several differences.

1. Like you said the 'alternative' white person gets promoted to the fee paying floor and progresses in an organisation. The 'authentically' black person doesn't.

1. Enough white people see their friends/family in the the grungey/rocker person and will defend their right of personal/social expression. Black people don't defend each other in the workplace, we're a minority voice plus we're often divided so there's not enough positive voices for black culture.

1. Another difference (IME) is white people are judged more objectively. They are the blank canvas and don't carry the stereotypes like minorities do. When they go for internal interviews they don't get as much 'hand-wringing' about their personal and social choices. Notice the difference in stereotypes I mentioned... slut is an embarrassment, unprofessional is an obstacle.

1. And further to that white people code switch more successfully. When they code switch they can leave their negative social tags behind.

The Martin Sheen effect.

Black peoples' stereotypes linger and hold us back. (That's why we fight so hard to conform and be the model minority).

1. After code switching and conforming, white peoples' minor alternative social expressions are celebrated. I worked with a fintech organisation where I supported a grievance about a new era cap when they were popular. A black man had 'complaints' about him wearing a cap while commuting and at lunch because he could bump into clients outside of work and it was 'unprofessional', it affected a promotion because it was in the HR file and shouldn't have been. Then 9 months later a white colleague wore a new era cap with a rock band graffiti across it to a client event and everyone celebrated it as being edgy, fun and diverse. It was passed around and there were pics with it on published internally and one was sent to a professional registration publication.

Ironically the black guy was really friendly and compliant he was a model minority and didn't really push things (he was one of the types to talk about I'm urban not black when that was a thing, white girlfriend and mostly white friends). The cap thing was just so blatant and he only found out there was a formal record of the cap via a subject access request. Unfortunately it was too late to affect the missed promotion so the black guy took a compromise agreement and left.

As an aside, if he didn't have that black wake up call he would probably be talking like Kemi Badenoch right now.

I don’t have a any further advise @purpledagger but just to say I think if more people had your supportive attitude for young people in work it would benefit a generation enormously. You’re fab🌸

I work with young people and I tend to coach them before they go on to speak to academic staff. There are cultural differences eg one young man had been told by his mum to never make eye contact with women so he didn’t.

www.lawgazette.co.uk/commentary-and-opinion/this-is-what-a-lawyer-looks-like/5108390.article

Just saw this and remembered this thread. Mark knows that you have to flex while being a barrister but he's not hiding who he is so much so that he's engaged in the 'what lawyers look like' challenge.

He has also reminded me of the first time I sat behind a black barrister with proper Etonian accent and glorious dreads flowing from under his wig.

You can, within reason, be yourself but you have to produce the goods because you're generally not going to be afforded the licence that others are given.

Thanks for all your comments and interesting perspectives. Maggiethecat I love that article about the barrister. Two things struck me about Mark. Firstly, Mark is aware of when he needs to change his approach depending on the situation and secondly, he is obviously very clever and determined. I think it's easier to be a bit different if you are extraordinary but the person I'm referring to is very ordinary and average.

On a more positive note, he came into the office today dressed smartly, kept his head down and just got on with his work. His manager has told him that he needs to up his game, so hopefully he has realised that his previous behaviour wasn't appropriate. He did show me his tattoos today, so he still gets to be himself and share things that are important to him, but still be within that context of what is appropriate in the workplace.

I have a few things coming up that he can work with me on, which will help his development, but I'm just hoping he doesn't slip back into his old ways.

So, is he post-university, or not?

(And what are you giving him to read?)

I’m not black, so please disregard if you feel I’m ineligible to pass comment.

I am, however, from a very working class background. Grew up on a council estate, bog-standard comp, free school meals, first person in my family to go to university etc etc. When I started work, I stood out very obviously from my middle-class peers. A kindly older colleague took me under her wing and gave me a few friendly tips on vocabulary, manners, grooming etc. It wasn’t quite telling me which knife & fork to use, but not far off. I was so grateful for her help, maybe this young man would be, too?

Mayidestroyyou I don't think he has been to university. I haven't given him anything to read,

"I have a few things coming up that he can work with me on, which will help his development, but I'm just hoping he doesn't slip back into his old ways."

OP, I think it's really admirable that you're looking out for him and it's good that he's taking comments on board.

He needs to get on with doing a good job, learning, being interested, gaining awareness of office norms and working out the parameters within which he can express his tastes and preferences.

He probably realises that at this stage it's job first, self expression later.

I thought I would give an update;

He asked me if he could be involved in a project which would mean he would be meet he would need to be in contact with senior people outside of our Department.

I told him that I'm really supportive of team development, but that he doesn't present as credible and he would need to earn the right to development opportunities. He said that the reason his performance was up and down was because of the uncertainty of his contract. I said his contract was uncertain because of his performance so he should be trying to prove to us that he deserves to stay.

I haven't told him, but it turns out, I know his Mum. She is a friend of a friend and I've meet her a couple of times, but haven't seen her in years.
I can now understand why he is the way he is. I know his Mum had him, as her first child when she was 14-17, never finished her education, never had a job and has always been a single parent with 5-7 children. I'm not saying she's a bad parent, but she's never given him any educational or careers guidance, because she doesn't know herself.

Thanks for the update OP - I am interested as I think it could be a child or nephew of any of us. Interesting but not surprising that his background has lead him to where he is. I also suspect he thinks it's easier to get ahead than it is because he hasn't really been close enough to anyone to get the real picture of work ethic and diligence. I wish you the best and hope you make a difference in his life x.

Denzil you are spot on about him thinking that it he thinks it's easier to get ahead than it is.

Just recently, we were in the office together and I head him talking on that phone to a friend and he said '.... I had last Tuesday off. I mean, I was working from home'. I told him that it shows his attitude to work if he regards WFH as a day off. he said he self corrected and that wasn't what he meant. I said, can you imagine what the big boss would have thought if they'd overheard that.

OP I hope you told him to be very careful of making and taking personal phone calls at work.

Tell him it is better not to take them in earshot of anyone in the office including yourself, in case anyone over hears things that could be used against him.

Also tell him to ensure and keep all his social media profiles private.

Unfortunately he needs to learn you should limit the personal information people you work with know about you as it can and will be used against you for any spurious reason.

Surprised at some comments on here about being able to bring your authentic self to work. It is not acceptable to wear a hood up on a work call/in the office. That is not professionalism and race doesn’t come into that. Behaviour and how one presents themself at work/to wider society should be learnt at home. There are enough TV programmes which also show how to dress/act at work. If it’s not taught at home for whatever reason, as the same ethnic minority, I would take them under my wing and mentor them and teach them. Obviously they have to be willing to show enthusiasm and commitment to want to succeed first. Then send him links to bios and videos of people who he could aspire to be like and talk about their career journeys, teach him about professionalism and work etiquette (nothing to do with race IMO), then discuss potential pathways he could take and opportunities he could get involved with. Youngs need to learn the small nuances about how to climb the ladder, the politics involved, how to deal with the office influencers etc. We all know that being kick ass at your job doesn’t mean you will get promoted. You have to walk like them, act like them, talk like them. Once there are enough of a minority in senior positions, then things like company culture will change and you can bring more of your authentic self to work if you wish

Final update - he had left!!

He said he had another job (although he had told one colleague he has gone back to a former employer and another colleague that he he has a job in a different sector). It's probably for the best, as I think it was becoming obvious that it wasn't working.

He wanted to have a catch up before he left, but we didn't get the chance. I just hope he has taken on board some of the feedback we've given to him, but I suspect not.