Have you ever been accused of bullying at work?

[Starseeking]

I read this story with interest, as it resonated with me.

metro.co.uk/2021/03/03/why-black-women-are-so-frequently-accused-of-bullying-14177850/?fbclid=IwAR0uAF_yfTMgxWcvFHtIdiclRiVeLin1ReL1YviujuPlnfh6DzmygYrx0TI

It sums up some of the experiences I had earlier in my career, although not so much now that I am at a senior level. This could be because having had to navigate these spaces for so long, I keep receipts for everything, so it would be difficult to make the accusation.

I wondered if anyone else's experience mirrors mine?

I haven't been accused of bullying, but I have been accused of being rude and struggling with professionalism (the list goes on). I believe the treatment was based on racial stereotypes, and was able to prove this and won my case!

Oh wow I read that article and it's absolutely spot on. I haven't been accused of bullying but I have been in situations where this could have happened. I have got through by not entertaining work mates outside work and following up all conversations in writing and asking for written confirmation of dubious requests or comments.

Written communication has saved me from many nasty run ins. I also record all phone conversations after a friend went through this at work and although she was the injured party, the conversation became centred on her "aggressive response" and "intimidating nature" instead of the actual racist comments she was responding to. Phone recordings helped her when she took the company to court.

I won't leave anything to chance.

I had a junior complain behind my back that I wasn't helpful to her etc although I did bend over backward for her. She never formally complained but I knew from her attitude that she was likely to believe, albeit unrealistically, that she would have been given the benefit of any doubt.

On the "uppity" point - I have no doubt that I've had this label attached to me at work. It's sometimes funny seeing people's expression when you casually mention engaging in matters considered aspirational and which somehow you're not expected to participate in!

This happened to me twice and each time I have been exonerated because I kept meticulous records. The last time the person in question took out a formal complaint and I had to go to a tribunal and turns out the hate against me started from the day I joined the organisation as I was qualified in the relevant field and he wasnt. I was able to evidence that every complaint against me was a lie and that I had supported and encouraged this employee over and above normal. After the tribunal was decided in my favour, the people on the panel (individually and privately) came to me and apologised for the situation I had been put through and couldn't believe I had been in such an intolerable situation and nothing had been done about it.
Some people do not like having black people as their managers or in a position where they make a decent living and so will do anything to belittle and sabotage their jobs. Most people have no issues whatsoever and take people as they come. You never really know until it hits the fan so keep records and evidence everything.

Our experiences are all so similar.

I keep notes of everything I do, and any time I attend a meeting, I confirm what has been agreed following via email, lest it come back to bite me at a later date.

I actively avoid having meetings with just one other person (other than 1-1 with my direct reports, who I get on brilliantly with), and never have "friends" at work, just "colleagues I am friendly with".

Its the first thing I learnt after graduating and getting that first job from my Black mentor: CYA - Cover you Ass at all costs, all the time, document everything. It has saved me from qll sorts, and when one gaslighting employee found out, I documented everything,she jokingly mocked me before realising that anything she wanted to claim I could counter and since then has become a lot more professional and kept her distance.

You can never slip or relax.

@Starseeking and @Benelovencd
I’m anal about emails to document events and as action tools but also crucially to CYA.

The need for this can’t be overstated.

I have hesitated to post - I have no place here as I am white, but I am a woman.

On the BBC website this morning on the bit where it summarises what's on the front page of next day's newspapers:

Just about every one had a picture of Meghan with accusations of bullying.

Except one. Which had a picture of Priti Patel with an accusation of bullying.

It made my stomach churn.

[quote maggiethecat]**@Starseeking* and @Benelovencd*
I’m anal about emails to document events and as action tools but also crucially to CYA.

The need for this can’t be overstated.[/quote]
It's exhausting though, isn't it?

I've actually just seen another one.

www.cityam.com/exclusive-deloitte-diversity-chief-steps-down-following-accusations-of-bullying/

Are there any workplace bullies who are white? Or male? Or is it just women of colour who qualify as newsworthy???

Yes.

By an Asian woman who I spoke to 4/5 times in a year. 2 of those was with her manager and HR.

First time, I had an hour long joint seminar with her and realised that she wasn’t someone I would want to talk to and would just be polite to her. We were on different teams in an open plan office so we rarely had a reason to chat.

Second time, my colleague and I were talking while working and she butted into the conversation. We ended it but she kept talking. She had said something about wfh on Christmas (it was Spring) and I said “ok”. I get asked into the conference room by her team lead who says I offended her but couldn’t tell me what I said that was offensive. I said I’d like to know, her team lead said it wasn’t necessary and that I should leave it l because I’m confident like Beyoncé (I’m American and I’m probably the only Black American she has ever met in her life) and she isn’t, yet it was necessary to interrupt my work for it so I said I would like to know so I wouldn’t do it again.

Still didn’t get what I said wrong and she mentioned that I didn’t show enough empathy for her working on Christmas. I was reading something when she was talking about it and she had mentioned it the first time we met. Plus, it is a common thing in my culture where people work on holidays, most don’t get to do so from home so confused on why I needed to show sympathy twice for something four months ago.

I ended up having to take her to HR because she was telling people she reported me. I had a few colleagues who stuck up for me even though my own team leader didn’t. I was known for being nice and helping people out so it didn’t do what she expected. I was also pregnant and going through things so having to deal with this was.. yea. My husband was looking to get a solicitor involved if it continued. HR saw that she was being ridiculous. The only issue I ever had with her (outside of her reporting me for senseless reasons) was that she talked very loud. It was something the whole office knew (and several had complained about). She was even told by my team lead and a line manager that they could hear her without her calling them on their phones in front of the whole office and others agreeing. I tell her in front of two people in HR and say it gently and she burst into tears saying I’m attacking her. HR and I were looking at each other perplexed. She didn’t last long after that from what I heard.

Second time, funny enough my line manager informed me that one of the HR ladies was mad at me for asking to leave a Christmas party early so I and some other ladies could go back to work (we were backlogged). The party was around lunch time, middle of the work week, and during our busiest season. My line manager spoke up for me and explained it to her that we were severely backlogged and I was working to help clear it. Per her suggestion, I sent an email apologising. Didn’t matter that I wasn’t just asking for myself but others as well and that it was for work purposes which involved clients and customers who would like their results before Christmas.

@Starseeking
It's just the tired trope of the aggressive/angry black woman at play. There will therefore be a lower bully threshold for us.

@phoenixrosehere
I feel for you. As Dh says, damned if you do damned if you don't!

I really had been tempted to post here about MM because we've all been there. Whatever the ins and outs the blanket denial of how race played a part in her treatment is upsetting and says a lot about black women in the UK.

Work? yes, but definitely started in school.

Remember being around 5 (must have been because I moved school at 6/7), and this white girl wanting me to play a game I didn't want to play. So I didn't. I also had friends playing with me. Little girl insisted, I said no as was just fine living my own life doing whatever the heck I was doing at 5 years old. My friends were also happy playing with me. She ran and told the 'dinner lady' (usually in those days it was just a parent of a child at the school - do they still do that?! I surely hope not!). White girl cried. Yup. You know what came next. I was accused of bullying and sent to go and stand facing the wall for the rest of play.

I won't ever forget that playtime because even at that young age I realised what her crying meant, what was happening. I remember feeling wretched and powerless. I saw that white + female + tears meant game over. But you know what? I just took the punishment. I didn't cry. I tried to. But I couldn't. It just wasn't in me. I felt anger and injustice. It was so shaming to stand there with my back to the playground. Just awful. Remember, these are our formative years. These are big lessons to be learning. After that I made a point to play with the Asian and black kids and remember edging away when white girls came over (which they always did because we had such great games, right?!) because I just didn't want the trouble. But I saw that wall many times, let me tell you, just for having an opinion. If you had.a disagreement with a white girl and her tears came, your heart just sank because you knew as she turned and ran to the dinner lady, it was game over. Sometimes you might even just start walking over to the wall to save time. This is the 1980s/90s.

Fast forward to just before covid. So, for background, I'm very qualified. I'm not blowing my own trumpet. I have to have a bachelors and doctorate (at least) to do my job. There are v few black people in my job because it's high selective and discrimination is rife. A younger black woman in another professional role but within my team is having trouble with a (racist?) manager. My black colleague is going through disciplinary procedures. I TELL ALL THE YOUNG BLACK WORKERS TO SIGN UP TO THE UNION. But this young woman did not take heed. So she asks me to accompany her to the meetings. I do. During the meeting with her mgr, HR, the works, I am her ally. Meeting has quite good outcome for my girl, considering, and her job is saved. She lives to see another day.

Coincidence? One week later I'm called to a meeting about me (must foray into the past for the background on this one. One year or so before all this disciplinary meeting business, a white female member of staff whom you might say is junior to me is co-working a client. Client tells me she does not 'like' my colleague. This is impacting her trust and the way our work is going. I tell colleague about this with a view to seeing what can be done about it. Colleague goes to a colleague who is not my direct manager but is probably senior to me and is same mgr who attended the disciplinary meeting about the black worker to tell her that hearing that made her feel so low and depressed that she can hardly get up in the morning to come in to work. Which is ofcourse just a proxy for white women's tears.) That manager calls me in to a meeting with my supervisor to discuss that some members of the team think I am too direct and blunt in my way of speaking - not that I've said anything wrong, just they don't like how I speak. That this upsets them, and she brings up the aforementioned event (by this time about a year had gone by). Manager talks about it as though lots of people have made this comment when I actually think I get on quite well with the team. Manager won't tell me who has made the other comments, nor what they relate to, nor really even what they are. So, my personality is the issue. I am the issue. I am the most professionally qualified person in the team. Please remember this. I might not be the most senior, but on paper I am the most qualified. I'm a black woman. To do my job to the best fo my ability I feel I need to be in the centre of things, so I literally place myself on a desk in the middle of the office. However, following this meeting, I go straight back to my desk. Pack up my things. Move to where the black workers sit. They ask me how come it took me so long. Almost an exact re-run of my response at 5 because these people don't change, so I still just need to leave them alone.

This is everyday life for us. Every day.

I’ve been accused of not being a ‘team player’. This was my old job and in my current role everyone likes to go out for a drink to socialise, something that’s not a part of my culture/religion.

My husband recently had to leave his job that he has worked so hard for in the city. His (white female) line manager apparently felt “unsafe” around him. That was it. Then came the add ons, time keeping is an issue, standard of work is an issue, and on it went”. In the end he left. So deeply unjust. Unsafe my arse. @Sugarintheplum I’ve a shit hot employment lawyer who is a close friend should you need it. PM me if so. And to everyone, keep records. Of everything. Even if you don’t think you’ll need it.

@Lndnmummy
Sorry to hear about your Dh. That is a very serious charge and unless the manager has hard evidence to support her feeling unsafe around him I would think your Dh has a case against his employer. I imagine that your lawyer friend is steering you well though.

I’m sure your Dh deserves better. Good luck with it all!

@Lndnmummy

My husband recently had to leave his job that he has worked so hard for in the city. His (white female) line manager apparently felt “unsafe” around him. That was it. Then came the add ons, time keeping is an issue, standard of work is an issue, and on it went”. In the end he left. So deeply unjust. Unsafe my arse. *@Sugarintheplum* I’ve a shit hot employment lawyer who is a close friend should you need it. PM me if so. And to everyone, keep records. Of everything. Even if you don’t think you’ll need it.

Fuck. I hope he is able to take it to tribunal. Sometimes though the stress is too much

My primary school days was EXACTLY like this I used to spend a lot of time facing the wall because of a new girl and an evil cow of a dinner lady who was a nasty piece of works Mum of a another child...new girl wanted my friend I always used to make it so all 3 of us would play especially skipping used to love it but then she would always want my friend to herself and make things a game of 2 she would cry or physically push me away she would NEVER get told off for pushing me but if I reacted back it was straight to the wall or inside sat on the floor outside the Headteachers office!

I never bothered after a while I just used to go and sit on the big log and read. I also had a Teacher who would sometimes say the paint pots need washing out so you'll have your playtime in here...said with the smuggest smirk...little did she know I loved doing the cleaning up ready for the afternoon activities, I was on my own so couldn't be accused of anything. Would get it done as quick as I could then play in the sand tray for a little bit then have have the bean bag and throw to myself whilst reading for a whole 30 mins it was bliss...this was 80s to early 90s all white primary school apart from me.

I have been accused of bullying by pupils at my current school a number of times. The other Teachers (white female) speak with a 'softer tone' I am too harsh.

A pupil 'white girl' had made a complaint recently when I asked for EXACT details they didn't have any just general points...that all teachers do e.g. uniform or equipment...two of the things had nothing to do with me.

The next day the same pupil came to me because some posts had been put on the internet about her...I investigated it (part of my job) and dealt with those responsible not once did I meet with this child on my own...I was still the villain with one of SLT and was told I need to count to 10 before I speak to this child and shower then with praise. "The relationship will be so much better". Once the lock down is over i'll be looking for another job. I'm too tired to be dealing with this foolishness.

I had to report another member of staff at my previous school she was senior to me and mixed race black her attitude was just horrid she had an issue with everything and anything I did...lesson plans, my teaching, the way I spoke you name it...it wore me down...in fact it broke me...they got rid of her in the end as she was doing it to others but everyone was too frightened to speak up. They didn't get rid of her cronies and people took a if you can't beat them join them attitude so some of those became bullies towards me too. I know what killed me more than anything else was I genuinely thought we're the only two black colleagues there's got to be some solidarity? When I realised what it was it makes me even sadder...she loved being the 'token' black girl hated the fact that I came along hadn't come from a 'hard' life I was quite outgoing, mixed well with lots of people in different depts, led a few initiatives that went down very well with Ofsted.

It's taken me years to get over but it taught me I can only rely on myself regardless of race or gender.

@blueballetshoes 💔

blueballetshoes

Morning, BBS. Your story is so heartbreaking. My heart goes out to you. We could have gone to the same junior school. It was horrendous.

Only when I went to secondary school, did I change my modus operandi. I then became the "aggressor". Of course, I was still that hurt, sad child inside but I'd decided enough was enough. I never bullied, but I certainly wasn't going to be that hurt, scared child anymore. My whole personality changed.

The problem is, I went too much the other way: if someone looked at me, I'd get aggressive. If someone smiled at me, I'd think they were taking the p*ss, if someone wanted to play with me, I'd think it was because they wanted to hit/punch/kick me. Secondary school was no walk in the park but it was a lot better than it could have been.

I wonder how my personality would have panned out, had I not have been subjected to the inconsistent spite. And that goes for all people who have been bullied because of their looks.

I was talking to my daughter's friend, who works at my place, the other day, and she said that if there was anyone she wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of, it was me. I asked her why, and she said that I looked like I could look after myself, and that I wouldn't take sh*t lying down. Little does she know that I took it lying down for years.

I am a straight talker. I would never say anything behind someone's back that I couldn't say to their face. Apparently, that means I have a bit of an attitude?

It astounds me that I can be sat at work, listen to colleagues really slating someone, and then when said colleague walks into the room, it's all "Morning, how are you. How are the kids?" . Yes, we all have a grumble, but this is really spiteful stuff.

And this isn't a colour thing, necessarily. It's not a negative to be upfront with people. At least you/they know where they stand. Like I never knew with my foster parents. The biggest two faced gossips I've ever encountered.

I find it bizarre, truly.

Some people will always try it. Not a story from work but where i used to live. Straight out of uni, i moved into a house share with a really anal Caucasian property manager. In our FIRST conversation she mentioned to me that she liked younger black men, (a fetish) she was in her late 50s. I don't know why this was relevant and why she needed to tell me, as it was not wht we were talking about at the time.

On one occasion she had had a cleaner tidy our house, the cleaner had left the bin on our dining table and mats in the sink. So i thought to raise this with her BUT there was no way i would call her 1:1, i had pegged her as someone who would jump straight for the old racial tropes of aggressive black person.

I called her on loud speaker in front of all the house mates , thanked her for tidying and then asked her why she had left the bin on the table and the place not how it was found.

She stormed round within a minute, i think she must have ran. She was incensed that a lowly tenant would question her. After being backed up by the other housemates on how her practices were unsanitary. Realising she had lost the argument, she uttered the words i had predicted. '' Sorry but i think you were aggressive over the phone....

Hahah the way we all laughed in her face, i told her that she had been on speaker phone for all to hear..

As a black person in Uk, i think it's imperative to know that these type of people exist to, the kind that will fetish us but are also willing to play on racial stereotypes to try and ''keep us in our place''

As a black person in Uk, i think it's imperative to know that these type of people exist to, the kind that will fetish us but are also willing to play on racial stereotypes to try and ''keep us in our place''

Agreed. It's all very odd behaviour. I've seen it time and time again.

As per advice @Benelovencd gives"I haven't been accused of bullying but I have been in situations where this could have happened. I have got through by not entertaining work mates outside work and following up all conversations in writing and asking for written confirmation of dubious requests or comments.

Written communication has saved me from many nasty run ins. I also record all phone conversations after a friend went through this at work and although she was the injured party, the conversation became centred on her "aggressive response" and "intimidating nature" instead of the actual racist comments she was responding to. Phone recordings helped her when she took the company to court."

I have been accused of it several times. Hazard of the job I do. As soon as you have to start down a performance or capability route and they look like they will fail, the allegation comes in that they are being bullied, supervision and management is oppressive etc. Frankly is a fairly standard pattern as soon as a trade union gets involves, the letters laying out the allegations are similar and almost like a template really. The key is exactly this...don't engage in friendships at work. If you are friends keep it strictly external with no social media connections. Document everything, meticulous records and emails to the person so they can't deny receiving it. Recording of phone calls is in my view very dubious unless declared and agreed to prior. The same with Teams meetings although the other party will know it is being recorded. My view is recording, unless a formal disciplinary could start to be considered oppressive but as the Op points out it can be useful if evidence against dishonesty

So familiar but to painful to recount.