Colourism

[RedMarauder]

Just read this:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/27/time-to-face-up-to-colourism-candice-brathwaite

So I thought I would post it openly.

I know it affects any ethnicity where people have melanin in their skin.

Ah yes, I'm Asian and was raised to think that being light skinned was preferable

I'm unambiguously black, dw and dd also, I've definitely had my experiences with colourism.

But this is a tough conversation to have, Rochelle Humes is an easy 'villain' she doesn't 'appear' to have much of a connection to the black experience so it's a little bit off when she's chosen to represent it. But at the same time it's feels wrong to to dismiss/reject her because even if she's avoided many of our struggles by 'passing' she is not immune and may face them in the future, so it's complicated.

Akala is just as mixed race, but feels different to me when he's representing the black experience, but not all my friends agree, so it's complicated.

Blackness is not a competition but historically our oppressors have made whiteness a competition, so it's complicated.

I grew up as white in white area. I have black family now. However Rochelle Holmes was my first experience of a black woman in music and media. I, along with all my white uncultured friends saw her change her look and straighten her hair and become whiter in a way to be prettier in the media. She has a whole following of girls who had no idea she chemically straightened her hair and changed her appearance because she wasn't herself. She can't be the person who represents a proud black beautiful natural woman because she never was one!

But colourism has been abounding for years in all communities of colour. I agree with the pp that we can't dismiss Rochelle's the experiences, but why is it so much more appeasing for media when a fair or dual heritage POC discusses this, but not a topic of interest if a dark POC, e.g. Nadia from GBBO, or say Dianne Abbot were to raise this topic? It would be the whole 'race card' dismissal, or someone saying that being Irish is a disadvantage for job interviews.

It's exhausting, but it's not going to change anytime soon. All the 'woke' BLM supporters who have a choice have jumped onto some other bandwagon already, and most industries have moved on too. World Societies favour fairer complexion people, and so long as African country leaders treat black and dark skinned people like infidels and sacrificial lambs, other world leaders / industries/ societies will act with impunity.

I am white so I hope it’s ok for me to comment/ask
Is it more “acceptable for men to be dark skinned than women?”
If you look at actors the male ones seem to be a range but the women generally seem to be paler with straightened hair. I know there are exceptions but there seems to be a trend

@hoppinggreen, there was an interesting thread about black men protesting BLM vociferously whilst only ever dating white women. I'm white too but the crap black women have to deal with on top of all of the extra crap women of any colour have to deal with - eye opening.

I think I read that casting directors are nervous around the idea of a black woman and a white man because historically it would have been an abuse of power, a la ''Droight de Seigneur''. Whereas a White woman and a black man seems less loaded historically. But I'd ssay there is more to it that is rooted in the here and now. And, of course, now is now and black women are living NOW.

[quote Number3BigCupOfTea]@hoppinggreen, there was an interesting thread about black men protesting BLM vociferously whilst only ever dating white women. I'm white too but the crap black women have to deal with on top of all of the extra crap women of any colour have to deal with - eye opening.

I think I read that casting directors are nervous around the idea of a black woman and a white man because historically it would have been an abuse of power, a la ''Droight de Seigneur''. Whereas a White woman and a black man seems less loaded historically. But I'd ssay there is more to it that is rooted in the here and now. And, of course, now is now and black women are living NOW.[/quote]

Nope! It's more about who is considered beautiful enough to be on screen, sell ads and appeals to whiteness.

I was reading a twitter thread yesterday how colourism destroyed a whole generation of RnB singers becuase they weren't fuckable. From around 2005-about now.

@Hoppinggreen

I am white so I hope it’s ok for me to comment/ask Is it more “acceptable for men to be dark skinned than women?” If you look at actors the male ones seem to be a range but the women generally seem to be paler with straightened hair. I know there are exceptions but there seems to be a trend

Yes.

If you think about the description of the perfect man being "tall, dark and handsome", Black men are very much included in that category. The likes of Idris Elba, Daniel Kaluuya, Chadwick Boseman can hold leading male roles, and be lusted after by women (and men) of every hue, while their female equivalents are non-existent.

In the same vein, descriptions of the perfect woman include "fair, blue eyed and blonde", none of which a dark-skinned a Black woman would ever naturally fall into.

Statistics around internet dating show that Black women get the least amount of responses/contacts, while white women get the most.

Anecdotally, in the Western world, you also have Black men dating far more interracially than any other race of man, and being accepted to do so. Black women, date to a much lesser extent interracially, and are accepted as doing so much less.

@debbrianna yes this is very much true. They push racially ambiguous and white artists (who they push to essentially blackfish by heavily tanning and adopting black styles -think Arianna Grande). Artists like Fantasia, Jennifer Hudson and even Teyana Taylor don't get support from their music labels or even radio stations regardless of talent.

In a post 2005 world even the Queen of RnB herself Mary J Blige would struggle to get success and would not have made it as big because of her skin colour

Whereas a White woman and a black man seems less loaded historically.

Loaded for who?
I would say it is pretty loaded historically especially for Black women given Emmet Till and other's experience where Black men where lynched and killed sometimes for a consensual relationship as the woman lied to protect her honour or in Emmet's case just out of pure evil and a non existent relationship.

Furthermore it is loaded with fetishism, hypersexualisation and dehumanisation of Black men, particularly in the media.

@debbrianna i get that, so, they can just use the "oh historically a black woman and a white man is more loaded than the other way around" as an excuse to not do it.

Black men wouldn't tolerate 90% of roles and representation going to men who look like those in the pictures (because they have some Black heritage), but expect Black women to accept their own erasure and even mock them for being jealous.

The media alone isn't to blame, these women also know by marketing themselves as Black women instead of mixed race/half or three quarters white/Asian, they go from being unconventional/too ethnic looking/too dark etc to being desirable in the Black community and Black roles and call unambiguous Black women and DSBW jealous/aggressive/bitter etc., for pointing this out.

[quote Number3BigCupOfTea]@debbrianna i get that, so, they can just use the "oh historically a black woman and a white man is more loaded than the other way around" as an excuse to not do it.[/quote]

Yes I saw that. I don't the energy.

I am white, the Red Table discussion about colourism with Jada Pinkett Smith on facebook is well worth watching. I was shocked to see how distressing it was in the community.

Interesting thing about all of this. When black comdies rolled the early 90s sitcom era, the mums were the same shade as their children.. it has totally changed now. You will rarely find a dark skin mum, dark skin older sister. Coming to late 90s and early 2000 those that hot fired were replaced by lights skin person. That included aunt viv and the older child from my wife and kids..this is now the set of all casting for black lead dramas, sitcoms and films.

I was reading a twitter thread yesterday how colourism destroyed a whole generation of RnB singers becuase they weren't fuckable. From around 2005-about now.

That's interesting - do you have a link to that thread please? What changed in c.2005?

Even non-blacks could see this was the status quo blatantly. The romantic female black leads in films are almost always light skinned unless they're a comedian. This happens in Bollywood too (Asian here). I don't know what everyone else thinks about this but I almost feel there's a preference to cast dark skinned men and light skinned females.

The Aunt Viv thing is the most memorable one for me. Even at that age I thought it was ridiculous. I think that actually put a lot of people off watching Fresh Prince.

I am 50 and grew up in Ireland so I understood none of the nuances but I did sometimes look at the casting and think come on, how could that be possible. I thought it was bad casting. Didn't realise that it was deliberate and more acceptable to a white audience.

@Number3BigCupOfTea You have clearly not read "To kill a Mockingbird". While it's fiction it's based - as what a PP said the - fetishism, hypersexualisation and dehumanisation of Black men.

Agree with you @AIMummy with your statement here: ". I don't know what everyone else thinks about this but I almost feel there's a preference to cast dark skinned men and light skinned females." Of course that is the case. A black man represents muscular strength, physique, heterosexuality, etc in a way that may make the white male jealous. That was what made Hitler furious when Jesse Owens won all of his track events in the 1936 Berlin Olympics. He won gold in the face of Hitler purporting his Aryan supremacy trash. That a black man could show the ultimate strength and sporting agility to outshine Aryans, has been something that has fascinated and irked not just curious Germans but also european far right supporters ever since.

It is very politically loaded for black men to be with white women in mainland Europe. It can be life threatening as a result too.

However it is not as loaded (from what I hear) for a light skinned or dual heritage man to be with a white woman in mainland Europe. That same strength and physical intelligence is not considered a threat.