Black and Education

[EchoCardioGran]

What are your or your family members' experiences of education. What about Higher or Further Education? Positive or negative. Hopes and fears. Best practice, or room for improvement? Anyone a mentor or was mentored?

Did you see this programme? It had me both smiling and in tears.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p08t25sj/being-black-at-cambridge

I hope I'm responding correctly and not misinterpreting;

My experiences in education were... um... not that great.

I was a 'straight A' student throughout primary school and the beginning of secondary school. Then my father died and I kind of fell off kilter. The teachers that I think should have been encouraging me to keep going just let me get on with it. I never understood why, but over time it became clearer. My GCSE grades were subsequently good, not great. Good enough though to allow me to do four full A levels instead of the normally allowed three. So yay me.

I did law at A level, because my one and only aspiration in life was to become a lawyer. I had even met Cherie Blair after winning a competition at 13 and told her of my dreams to eventually become a QC. She seemed very impressed by me. I also did french (for an easy A), psychology and philosophy. I wanted ALL the knowledge.

Well, the college teachers weren't as impressed by me. One lesson, the law teacher decided to give the class a lecture about if it's even worth pursuing a career in law, based on your skills and abilities. She was looking at me dead in the eye when she said that there are 'some people who just shouldn't try to pursue it'. It sounds paranoid, but my white male friend next to me noticed it too. I went home and cried. DM said to keep trying, but I couldn't be bothered any more. I found another career choice, journalism, but then at university quickly decided I wasn't cut throat enough to continue, so I switched to an art based degree and eventually became a graphic designer.

I'm okay with this. DM is heartbroken though. And since having DC, I can finally understand why. There is nothing she could have said or done to re-instil my confidence at that time, I literally felt it die in the classroom. Even now she thinks I would be great practicing law as I retained so much of my A level knowledge. But I'm not interested in trying to prove myself amongst a crowd of fresh graduates and doing the pick me dance.

So I feel let down by my education journey. I'm going to be so conscious of the support my DC get from their educational establishments. Not a helicopter parent or one that storms in. Just a mum that knows when she might need to top up her child's knowledge, if the school don't get them there. As well as making sure they're aware of what they should be able to expect from their mentors.

Now, if I totally misinterpreted your question, then wasn't that an irrelevant essay?!

I'm confused I got a notification saying somebody posted on the thread, it showed me a preview of the response but now I've come back to the thread there are still only two posts. Can anybody else see the comment? It looked like it was saying that I couldn't have wanted the career that badly if I gave up after one comment from a mentor.

So going on the basis that that's what the comment was about ...Well, one main problem was that she also seemed to scrutinise my work a lot more thoroughly and give me a lower grade. So I genuinely thought I would have struggled to get into a good university to practice law on that basis, forgetting that my exam grades were the most important. I was an impressional teenager. My past experiences of teachers giving up on me came into play. I felt that I would be fighting to prove myself every day. That the teacher would be right and I'd have wasted my life chasing a 'ridiculous dream'. I didn't have any fight left in me.

Thanks for posting AMeme I didn't see the disappeared post. Education is something very dear to me. I too got the " this job is probably not for you speech" at university ( second go, first time was a total disaster). I had a personal tutor who I went to see, and he was no help at all support wise. I was hoping after all these years that the world was moving on.
Do you think a good mentor would have helped you? If so, what sort of mentoring would you have found useful. I found H.E. really lonely, part of the reason I dropped out the first time.

It's a horrible feeling hearing those kinds of things, isn't it? I hope that you didn't do as I did and give up.

I really believe I would have benefited from having a one-on-one mentor. Somebody who had my best interests at heart, and I think it would have been great to have that both at college and at university. The type of mentoring I would have really appreciated would be somebody who could keep me on track towards the career I wanted. So essentially, somebody who knew what grades I would need to get into 'x' university, how to write my personal statement when applying for my ideal university, somebody who had my best interests at heart that I could contact if I needed advice on my next steps, someone who would remind me to stay focused or keep me on track if I was struggling to compartmentalise my life issues enough to focus on my studies.

At secondary school level, I always used to wish so hard that DM could afford a personal tutor for me. I really loved learning and improving myself. I wanted to see what I was capable of, and my teachers weren't interested in giving me any extra one-on-one education. I did ask, so I knew it wasn't an option. I always remember thinking how weird I was for wanting to spend more time at school. But I felt at the time as though I had so much potential, and that I needed outside help to unlock it.

Thanks for starting this thread once again, these are things I've never discussed. It's cathartic to be able to write it all down and acknowledge my experiences.

What were your experiences in education? Did you have a mentor?

My experience in education wasn't too bad... I suppose an argument could be made that I could have had a bit more support than I had received but I think what I had found disappointing was the lack of support from my peers.

At secondary school, it was other black kids (and on some occasions their parents) telling me that I was silly to want to pursue a career in law because in their words 'you're a black girl from East London so don't expect so much of yourself'. Despite this I continued to chase that dream by completing my degree and LPC in the hope of becoming a solicitor. It was really hard work passing the qualifications but that was because I was dyslexic but only got my diagnosis in my late 20s. What made this even worse was the fact that my parents knew I was dyslexic (from a young age) but chose not to tell me as they thought the diagnosis would hold me back. Unfortunately what they didn't realise was that I missed out on a lot of support because they didn't tell any of my schools about my dyslexia. My husband says I should be proud of my achievements but I can't help but feel that I could have done so much better (and actually become a solicitor) had I got the support that could have been available to me.

I decided not to become a solicitor but I work in a legal-related field and my employers are very keen on personal development and career progression. I've a couple of mentors since joining the firm and the advice & support received has been so useful.

Apologies for my post going off piste a bit.

I don't think you went off piste. I'm very sorry you haven't yet realised your dream. I'm very happy to see that you're still working in a legal field, because that means it's still very much possible .

(I went to school in east London. Come we go fam.)

No I didn't have a mentor. My secondary school was a white working class inner city school, girls convent school. So mainly everyone was to be a mother, a nun, a teacher or a nurse. The girls not in the top class in each year. got cookery and sewing lessons too ( Envy). I was there as I was brought up mostly by my white grandparents. This was way back in the 1970s
I was the first to do four A levels in my school, (which I got, and good grades too).
The male careers advisor came in once when I was in sixth form,
( local authority) He suggested that I might want to apply to be a receptionist. I went to University in another City to do an Arts degree.
Totally floundered, dropped out after a term. No support at all ,but very much an expectation that I would not really come to anything as I was not much liked by the nuns as I used to disagree with them in religious lessons. I remember the Boycott Barclays campaign at Uni as the apartheid regime was still very much going on in S.A.

I went back and studied some years later at a different Uni and lived at home with DH. Still tough as hell, but eventually got through it. Most of the other students were white with business /family connections already. I had a personal tutor then, he was a hard line Tory, white gay man, believe it or not. He didn't really "get me" but he certainly fought my corner for me at times when things got a bit ropey when I was struggling with some of my exams.

I started this thread after reading the one about Exeter university and the mother doing research on it for her DD. It's had me wondering if very much has changed after all these years.

Thanks for your thoughts Meme. I'm sorry you had that experience. I hope that you and yours achieve the true potential in the years to come.

@jennymac31 Sorry cross posted there, I'm slow on the keyboard these days. Send help
Not off piste at all. I could have worded the OP much better. but I was tired last night. Thanks for your post.
Funnily enough, I ended up in a legal related field too. Your DH sounds a goodie.
Yes, to knowing that I could have done so much more, with some good support.

My schooling in North London was pretty uneventful. I was always in top sets but my goodness, I was apathetic af. I wasn't interested in anything except reading. I was never pushed at home, just reminded occasionally to be good at school. My friends were so determined to do well at school, I couldn't find a point to it all. Got all C's at GCSE with literally zero revision. Tbh I would never have looked at a life beyond office admin until some friends on my random business course at my very poorly rated college encouraged me to pursue A levels.

My A level Chemistry teacher was my first mentor. She lifted us all. A stern Nigerian woman, she did not accept any slack attitudes towards our grades. She was the reason I considered university. She was also the first person to tell me that my self-confidence was low, and she actually hugged me when I got an A for a very difficult exam. I then went to a good university where I was the only black person doing a chemistry degree in the 3 years I was there. One of my best friends (who I went to college with) spoke to me about pushing myself out of my comfort zone. My social life (and mouth) grew from there. This is also where I realised that men actually found me attractive, whereas before I'd felt undesirable and pushed men away. Anyway, after a streak of someone getting 96-100% in class tests, my main professor decided to find out who it was (tests were submitted anonymously), and he was visibly surprised. He invited me into to his office to discuss everything, as I'd been so silent in labs and lectures. I got a chemistry department award upon graduation for my performance, and I know he likely put my name forward for it. Got a first in Chemistry too. Science is my language.

But then, a month after I graduated, my grandmother died and I felt so down without her for around 2 years. I just drifted away from everything. I was also sofa surfing at the time but that's a long story. I decided a career in Public Health was for me, so I enrolled to study at the best Public Health university in the UK (and it's one of the best in world). I felt like I had to prove something to myself, I braced myself to study alongside some of the most intelligent people I'd ever meet. But I learned that everyone is human lol. Grades open doors but only tell a small part of one's story. Now, I am working on NHS/PHE funded projects in and around London. Sky is the limit and all that. I have my eyes set on a position at the ONS or a local public health commissioning job.

To summarise, I think from the beginning my parents were not very engaged in my school life, so I just didn't bother trying hard. I can't blame them, they didn't know any better. My DH is so different from me. He is Nigerian, and his education has always been very important to his parents. He got his act together waaaay quicker than most people I grew up with. But of course some people are just gifted with an innate drive to succeed. I definitely wasn't like that. I'm very involved with my son's education, but he's just started. I'm in a grammar area (absolutely coincidental) so I can't afford to be nonchalant about secondary choices. DH is already considering a selective private school for secondary level. Never in a million years could I see myself considering private schooling for my kids, but here we are. I want more for my kids than I want for myself.

JayDot Your teacher sounds an amazing woman.
When you wrote I felt like I had to prove something to myself, gosh yes, I really relate to that. I went back to Uni after my first failure in part because of a sneer from someone that I wouldn't come to anything.

Great that you are doing so well, so proud of you to read that

@EchoCardioGran well done to you too! Sounds like you've had to carve a path for yourself against shaky foundations also. I, too, believe that strong support and a good mentor can be soooo helpful. I hadn't even realised that I am someone who is absolutely encouraged to do better if I have people in my corner. For the longest time I thought I didn't need the influence of others to motivate me. I was so wrong. I achieved little until someone pushed me. After losing my gran, I reckoned it was time to start pushing myself, unprompted

I can't help but wonder what I'd have been like now if my parents told me I could do better, and to never accept mediocrity. The difference in values and attitudes towards education between my grandparents (all Caribbean immigrants), and my parents (born here) is quite stark.

Mentoring and having someone to fight your corner, believe in and encourage you is so important. I thought of this article on reading this thread.

Basically, it’s about a journalist with went to a school which rarely got a student into Oxbridge. He and some colleagues did some coaching and mentoring of 6th formers and lots of them were accepted to Oxbridge / Russell Group universities.

Although not specifically about black people, it shows how much of a difference can be made by having that help at critical points.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/oct/10/britains-best-universities-are-dominated-by-private-schools-could-i-help-level-the-playing-field

EchoCardioGran - this thread made me think about how my outcome may have been so much different had my parents remained in the UK rather than taking me back to Jamaica in my formative years.

I was a bright, inquisitive, chatty child whose parents, had they stayed, would have intended well but may have been limited in their ability to help me achieve.

In Jamaica, through the 11 plus exams, I gained entry to a top school where the girls were mainly all bright and hard working. We came from a wide range of backgrounds/classes but no one felt limited in what they could do or become - in fact we were expected to do well in whatever field we chose.

This difference in expectation must have a significant impact on outcomes and it's why I know some people send their children to family in the Caribbean to be educated (there are also factors such as more discipline in schools generally, attention to homework etc)

I probably was too young when I left to have any of the low expectation imposed on me but I reckon that it would have happened eventually in the way that others here have described.

I looked up 2 UK primary school best friends one summer when I visited just before uni and was surprised that neither had any plans for FE and didn't seem to really have any idea of what they wanted to do with their lives. It dawned on me very quickly that had I stayed that could easily have been me.

My dad is and always was a big advocate for education. It was just a natural thing that my siblings and I went on to higher education undergrad and postgraduate level.

He encouraged us all and where financial support was required, he would take a loan if necessary.

He always said knowledge is power and that education will take you far. He left my country of origin in Africa in his early 20s and achieved a lot because he had a thirst for knowledge.

Both my parents had professional careers in the medical field and experienced racial discrimination at various stages throughout their careers.

Hearing the stories kind of made us know, we had to do well education wise...to earn a good living.

With my kids and my siblings kids, it's also been a natural expectation that they would go on to higher education and that has been the case.

I don't see this as unusual though, because most of the people I know from my country of origin value education and them and their DC have proceeded to higher education.

SandyY2K - I remember a friend, who at the time was a doctor at Guy's, telling me that he overheard a young black boy on the ward asking his mum if my friend was a doctor to which mum replied "no, he's a janitor".
We laughed at the time but of course knew that it really wasn't funny.