Expats carrying future dual citizens!

[PrePG]

I've noticed that there are lots of us on here who are not originally from the UK - I wondered if anyone was interested in starting an expat thread.

For me, it's especially difficult to go through this without my family close by and I thought it might be comforting to 'talk' with others in the same situation.

Anyone else??

Alexpolis-
But I'm sure no one keeps a score of your manners during eating times? or silently scrutinizes your appearance ...while taking discreet 'bathroom breaks' to inspect the cleanliness of your bedroom? Actually mine are too afraid of speaking about politics because they seem to think every room is bugged.

actually they both sound like dinner events we can forgo once in a while for the sake of our sanity.

are you in london?

Lady Hump-- I'm RIGHT on Finchley road (the top though, where st johns wood station is)... we should have non-caffeinated beverages one day. Although I'm in awe that you've already made friends with pregnant people...Lucky!

But seriously I get looks from medical professionals (nhs) and other mothers when I say I'd like an epidural...I was actually told off for not wanting to do it the natural way.I swear I think this doctor at St. Marys hissed at me.

Then when I point out that I'd rather NOT feel my vagina tear to shreds they all congregate at the other side of the room. It's more awkward than talking to people who want to convert you to some other religion.

erm, no, nobody keeps checks on my manners (theirs can be pretty awful!) and my house is always a mess, so they wouldn't have to inspect the bedroom - it's right there in the living room! Do they really inspect your bedroom? I'd be tempted to leave some smelly knickers out deliberately!

No, I'm not in London, I live in Alexandroupolis in Greece (hence the name).

Re natural births - people keep telling me that women used to be out in the fields giving birth. I just smile and say "yes, and lots of them died, it's a good thing we have hospitals today!"

Referring back to the bedroom - another idea would be to leave a book on kinky sex in prominent position on the bedside table, perhaps with a set of handcuffs nearby. They can hardly ask you about it, and it might put them off further inspections!

you'd be surprised. they've already seen our 'cosmopolitans guide to the best kama sutra positions' and 'lazy girls guide to good sex'...

and we were told off for publicly showing our affection.

Hi all, mind if I crash here for a few?

I'm getting super frustrated and it's almost along the lines of the epidural debate. I miscarried about a month ago and we're about to start TTC again - I'm just petrified this is going to happen again and although I know there are no answers, I want to know if what happened is preventable, but it seems so hard to even find someone here that will even know what I'm talking about, let alone do a blood test! I guess I just don't know where to look. The GP has been less than helpful throughout this whole process, I just wish I was able to see my GYN in the states

Anyway, my MIL is very quiet as well, so I find myself chattering so that there's no uncomfortable silence and that's always when I tend to say something incredibly stupid! And in her house you're not allowed to have the TV on, ever! SHe doesn't like it on when she has guests... so we've spent entire long weekends at her house without so much as the news on. We didn't even know about the tsunami a few years ago until we met up with people who told us! I mean, not vegg-ing out in front of the TV for a whole three days is one thing, but a little engagement with the outside world would be nice...

Eandz- I don't know any pregnant people here, I just see all of them wandering around the park near Swiss Cottage Tube. And with the epidural, my antenatal class was so funny as the midwife was really hesitant to talk about them, and then she finally had to, and was telling us all of the worse-case scenarios to scare us away from them!! ha Oh, not to mention that she also hid all 'scary' pictures from us with her hand as she was showing us cartoon drawings of labor. What's up with that?? I want to know exactly what I'm getting into. Eh- I always have youtube (bring that up to your midwife- they go white as a sheet as they know you'll actually see the truth!

Prepg- I'm sorry you've had to go through this. I haven't been through a miscarriage myself, but my sister went through one last year and it tore her apart. she kept questioning herself too and was worried about getting pregnant again, but she did. As in most cases with miscarriage, it shows that you can get pregnant, there was just another unpreventable something that caused you to lose your little one. I know that what helped her through the next pregnancy was having a heart monitor, so she could listen to the baby's heart at any time. It was little help in the first tri, but a huge relief in the 2nd and 3rd. And you're not crashing this forum, you're the one who started it!

PrePg-

Miscarriage is soo friggin traumatic! I should know, I'm the queen of miscarrying. I've been on 3 different types of birth control in the past year and a half and have gotten pregnant each time. The first time I reached my 4th month before my doctor accepted my plea for a pregnancy test (my gp refused to take my home pregnancy tests seriously and said I was just getting fatter...the birth control I was on stops your period for 3 months at a time)so I had to wait till my 5th month for her to get it through her head...the second time another gp told me it would be impossobile for me to get pregnant because she said there was something wrong with my cervix and I later miscarried that same week (only about 8 weeks pregnant) at some oxbridge boat race thing. I was a little bit embarassed since i was in a white dress, hadn't lost my figure yet and it looked like I'd perioded all over myself. It was sooo icky...so this time when I figured out I was pregnant I found a private ob who would do anything I asked for a price. And thank god for that, because I gave the nhs one last try when I found out I was pregnant yet again on birthcontrol they suggested (each nhs gp was a different one since they all sucked worse than the next.)

this time around i went to the nhs gp told them i had taken 3 home pg tests and she didn't care to doubt me. Sent me in for a uterine scan to make sure I wasnt crazy because a previous doctors report said I was confident in my fake pregnancy or something mean like that...but a week later while going over blood tests I started bleeding everywhere in the gp's office and she stuck me in a broom closet with kitchen roll and told me I was miscarrying again. So I cried because I don't like broom closets when bleeding all over the floor, that had no lighting and stuck in the dark...and seriously the blood was everywhere, i got it on my new iphone and my pretty purse it looked like I'd slaughtered a pig on my crotch and then two men came with a wheelchair and silently took me to an ambulance to have another scan (i was totally in the dark till they came and I didn't even know they were coming)...went to st marys and stuck in a room with someone elses blood on the wallall the while i was just being handed towels and kitchen roll to stop my bleeding. was handed a 'sorry you've miscarried' booklet and made that all bloody reading it for something to keep my mind off of whats going on. was sent in for a scan 3 hours later and my baby was fine. moving around. They determined that I was bleeding internally (no, really?) but the pregnancy was fine so they didnt feel obligated to 1. stop the bleed and 2. find out WHY I WAS BLEEDING!!! at this point they handed me a maxi pad and told me to go home. While I was at the hospital I was asking for information regarding a private care and everyone from the 2 doctors that came in to tell me about miscarriage to the doctor who checked me out during my scan all three of them freaked out about my mentioning private care 'why would you want that?' 'it's the same thing'...and then they each indicated without trying to sound condesencing (but were incredibly patronizing) that we didn't look like we could afford it. (we're both 24 and for some reason come off as 18 yr old.) I look older now that i've gotten bigger than our houe. but yeah-- I know what your going through...it's frustrating and awful and I wish you'd never gone through it. the pain, the loss and the feelings of inadequacy are never matched after a miscarriage. hugs...would you like some cookie dough? Food makes everything better for me.

correction

**sorry I meant i reached my 5th month before the doctor agreed with me about my first pregnancy.

eandz My god, what you've been through! I'm so sorry! No wonder you're considering giving birth in the STates (read your other thread on pregnancy).

I'm really trying to be upbeat about the NHS - in fact the doctors at the hospital have been very kind and I was surprised by the fact that I had had two sonograms (one because I told the nurse at my GP I was feeling crampy and she sent me for a scan right away to rule out an ectopic, after which the EPU had me come back in two weeks for a follow-up) before my scheduled midwives appointment.

But I also post on a US pregnancy board and when I ask certain miscarriage related questions I get - didn't your doctor monitor your HCG levels and your progesterone? Um, well, no - no one ever even took any blood! I just feel like there is a complete lack of any concern until you get to 11-13 weeks, which seems kind of daft considering that's the time when most stuff goes wrog - although I guess the reasoning is that what is likely to go wrong in the first trimester can't be helped for the most part. I understand that most losses are chromosomal, but many are not and I would just feel better if I was armed with some knowledge that's specific to my situation.

PrePg-

They took bloods at my very last scare, but that was probably because I was screaming about how in America there are protocols and procedures to follow during emergencies, and that people who were bleeding weren't stuck in broom closets with kitchen rolls. I think I demanded blood tests...I didn't know which one I just know that no matter what the emergency unless its physical trauma blood should always be checked.

As far as I know, nhs care providers are not the people to ask for answers.

When I called in for the results, no one knew what I was talking about. I called the hospital, the gp and even had my husband call...no idea why they took all that blood from me if they weren't going to use it for the testing.

Eandz- I can't believe what you've been through. A broom closet?

I've been pretty lucky with the NHS, so I can't complain. Have a good doctor and the practice is brand new, so not very crowded. I think if I had your experiences though, I would have gone back to the states too.

I agree with the 11-13 weeks thing. When I talk to my sister about how I went to the doctor to tell them I was pregnant and they didn't do anything like take a blood test or even listen to my heart or take my blood pressure (and I have a funky heartbeat!), my sister was shocked! She had her hcg levels monitored and was given a scan at 6 weeks to check the baby (of course this was after her miscarriage). Still though, she just had to ask and they would do anything. This was at another NHS practice however, so I'm much happier at the new one.

So, I'm just wondering if we have to get a pediatrician for our babies, or do they just go to the same NHS as we go to? Do I check to see if there is a pediatrician there, or will the baby just see my same doctor? Anybody know the answer?

nope...so far I've seen people bringing babies to the normal nhs practice...but who knows if the appointments are for them or the babies? (i live across the street from one so always running into people asking for directions to the surgery.) i will call and ask tomorrow since it's something I need to know as well.

anyone else having crazy cravings? i need taco bell food and the only taco bells in england are at the raf air force bases....i must find american military people in this country to do their fellow country woman the biggest favor in the world. ahhhh.

So, I want to keep this thread going.

How did everyone end up living abroad?

Me? I met my DH when he came over for a study abroad program to my university. We worked at the same bar together (he was my bouncer, even though he's tiny ).

We were friends for a year (and it turns out we both had the biggest crushes on each other that whole time - talk about slow movers, hey?). We also both had another gf/bf. Then right before he was supposed to move back to England, we decided to have a go at a relationship. We were both single at this time. Things were perfect and but he had to return to England and we spent a year apart while we both finished our degrees. We both knew we wanted to be together. Then we moved to Germany together and then came back to England. I returned to California to finish my MA and then the day after I finished, I moved out here, and have been living in London ever since. Oh, we got married while I was doing the MA (a quick elopement in Vegas!) I moved to England as it was easier for me to get the visa as well as for my job, it was easier for me to come here rather than him come to California. So, now I'm here for the long run.

How did everyone else end up living far from home/meeting their partners?

Great story Ladyhump Mine's a bit weird but here goes:

I met mine at my best friend's bachelorette party It was July 4th weekend and we were at a dirty dirty bar in the Hamptons (half inside, half outside, only served Bud or Bud Light and only open from 12-8pm on Sundays in the summer because it just gets too rowdy otherwise. That said, my brother works for a Budweiser distributer and it's their largest account ). Anyway, he asked the bride to point out her single friends and I was the 'lucky girl' We kept calling him the "Australian guy" the whole time! We realized we both lived in Manhattan and started dating. We were together for 2 1/2 years before he was laid off and had to move back to the UK in late 2002. He wasn't ready to get married, so agreed to date long distance. It was April when I called him one night crying and said I just can't do this anymore!!! to which he replied 'We could just get married' Um, hello? Is this the same guy? Anyway, it was September before we managed to get it together to get engaged and February 04 when we got married. He flew over to New York on a Tuesday, we got married on the Saturday and then I flew back with him the following Wednesday. I just did my citizenship and our next convoluted plan involves getting me pregnant (again!) and staying pregnant! I'll take my super-long UK maternity leave and then we'll move back to New York so that he can get his citizenship and we can live wherever we want whenever we want!

This is such a nice idea, Ladyhump!

Here's my story: I was between jobs (I had three months to kill before starting my new contract, and my previous job had just finished), and when I was looking on the net at something quite different I happened to see an advert for jobs teaching English in Greece and there was one that was just for 3 months. So, I thought, why not. I'll do that for 3 months and then come back to the real world. Two days after arriving in Greece (in quite a remote town), I met my dh in a bar. We hit it off immediately, and he swept me off my feet in romantic Mediterranean style with bouquets of flowers, romantic dinners, etc. I never went back after the three months were up and here I am still nearly 10 years later.

We're totally different than the rest of you - I've dual citizenship and grew up in Canada and met my DH when we were both living in Vancouver. We decided to move here when I finished my PhD as an adventure and DH got a great job so we've ended up staying...

hugs to PrePG and eandz - you both deserve them! I think for me the NHS hasn't been as much of a shock - the health care service in Canada is similar to here and you don't even see an obstetrician there until you're well into your second trimester. Actually, I think the care here with midwives is more personal than in Canada and we've been really lucky - but then we're in Scotland and I know things can be very different when you cross the border. We had a threatened miscarriage with my DS and the early pregnancy unit at the hospital here in Aberdeen was wonderfully caring. We had a private room while we were waiting to find out if the baby was okay and they took you through to get scanned during a break from the regular scans so I didn't see any happy pregnant ladies. I feel so lucky that mine was just a scare!

Babies here don't see a pediatrician, just a regular GP and a health visitor (community nurse) unless there's something wrong. I've found you have to be proactive to get a referral to a specialist too (for us we needed to see a pediatric dietician at Children's Hospital for my son's milk allergy). However, if you're on top of things, the medical care seems fine.

I love all these stories. They're all quite similar in a weird way. We all must have a sense of adventure!

Aberdeenhiker Thanks for the info on the doctors. That's easy on us, but it's good to know that you might have to put up a bit of a fight to get what you need. That's interesting!

Stay alive little thread! Stay alive!

here's a question for you all - We told my parents we were expecting at around 6 weeks. I called to tell them, I just couldn't hold it in anymore. But we waited until till we were visiting New York to tlel the rest of my family - it was around 10 weeks. Sadly miscarried the week after. Now I'm likely to be due to test the week my parents are visiting this month!!! Do I test while they're here? More importantly do we tell them when they're here? It would be nice to, but it would be soooo early!

Depends on your relationship with your parents. When I had my first DS we were high risk for miscarriage and I was having a lot of problems and my DH was offshore so it was great to be able to phone my dad and have a good cry and get his support. We were visiting Toronto when we found out we were expecting again and told them right away.

Morning all. My god we've been through the wringer! Sometimes I wonder how I ended up here...it all seems like yesterday but it's been 5 long years. My husband is Scottish. We met as friends through a yahoo board for a local Austin band. We started chatting and ended up having quite a bit in common. He's wickedly funny. So when my company laid off it's consultants..I had a big fat redundancy cheque and several thousand airline miles, so I came over to visit. Needless to say, we got on very well and agreed that the next year would be crap, but we would give the long distance thing a go.
After a year of back and forth, I came to live in Glasgow and began the search for work/sponsorship. This was Jan '03. In Feb '03..my brother phoned to tell me not to bother getting the return flight to collect my things/cat because my mom's house (where I was living and had all my stuff/cat) had burned down.
Soo..very soon after my DH proposed and we were married in April. In all the excitement we hadn't noticed that we'd married on the day that the laws had changed about marrying on a visitor's visa and we had to actually fly to Chicago to get my spousal visa!
We waiting for a long time to try for a baby and had one blighted ovum this last summer. I'm now 30 weeks pregnant with a baby boy. Exciting stuff, eh?

mcchesers that's a lovely story! Congrats on your baby, best of luck!

Aberdeen I'm getting way ahead of myself actually, but I think I would tell them if I was. I'm very close to them.

mcchesers- Wow. What a story. Sorry to hear about the fire though. Poor cat

Prepg- Good on you to keep the thread going! I think I would tell my parents, especially if you're close to them. It sounds like they can keep a secret too (unlike my dad!) If I had been in the states, or my parents were over here, I would have rather told them in person than over the phone.

I've finished my 'how not to kill my baby' classes! I just decided in the end to do the NHS ones and spend the £200 that I would have spent on NCT classes on things that I want . A girl in my class who did both said that the NCT classes were very similar to the NHS ones and she actually preferred the NHS ones. Just something to think about for other people who were unsure which classes to go to.

Eandz- Where are you? How's the pregnancy going?

Hi there

Just posting to get away from work ...

My DH is American and I'm British. He was over here in 2002 doing an MBA after his divorce. We met at a dinner party to which we'd both been brought by friends. I thought he was the nicest man I'd ever met, but he had trouble written all over him. Why (at the ripe old age of 31) would a Brit get involved with an American only here for a year, who was divorced two months ago, and who was doing an MBA in a different city?

So we became friends ... And six months later, we started going out. And then he had to go back to the States in July 2003 when his student visa ran out. After a year of passionate trans-Atlantic encounters, just like PrePG, we were on the phone, I was saying that it was just too damned hard, and DH suggested we tied the knot!

So we got married two months later at Chelsea Registry Office on July 4th. A big red open-topped London bus took us to the reception, and it was wonderful.

Re miscarriages, Eandz, I am appalled at the treatment that you suffered. Did you know that Mumsnet is working with the Secretary of State for Health to redevelop the policy on miscarriage in England? Not putting people in broom closets would, I imagine, be one of their recommendations! Glad all is OK for you now.

PrePG, loads of luck for pregnancy testing and so on.

Oh and re health visitors, they provide basic health advice, some of which is suspect and some of which is useful. They also weigh your babies (every week if you want) so you can be reassured that he or she is growing properly.

I would also second what Aberdeen says about being proactive if you need help. All the healthcare is available, but you just have to ask for it. And in most GP's surgeries, babies get priority treatment. You can also ask your GP for referral to a paediatrician or specialist healthcare professional if something could be wrong. For example, in his first year. DS was seen by both an NHS paediatric urologist (undescended testicles) and a paediatric opthalmologist.