Planning a caesarean? What are the benefits?

[Uwila]

Hello,
I have already decided that I want a casarean this time round (just have to convince the consultant which shouldn't be too difficult since I had an emergency c last time).

I see lots of stuff in the media about how caesareans are bad for mother and baby and what a bad thing it is that we perform so many in this country. But, I personally think they are a good thing. And I think recovery is much easier than is usually described in places like the all natural NCT classes.

Anyway, I just wondered if anyone else who is pregnant now is wanting a caesarean and why? I assume I'm not alone in thinking there are actually benefits to a caesarean (like I won't break my pelvis!).

Just as an example, friends who have had babies with no pain relief - but not out of choice - midwives denied it to them or they were genuinely too fast - have been inundated with praise for that fact. The reaction when you say you have had a c-section is very different. I think it's pretty dreadful when women are told they did really well for not having pain relief, with the distinct implication that those who did did 'badly'.

Agree with you totally Aloha. I had a planned section with ds for purely medical reasons (see, 4 years on I still feel the need to justify myself!) and while I was frightened of the surgery, the worst thing was feeling like I'd failed and the assumptions other people made. I'm weighing up VBAC vs section for my second baby due in June at the moment, and if we decide that the section is a better idea then I will be totally happy with that, but it's taken me a long time to get here.

If I had been able to find lots of positive views like those on here in the week that I was waiting to have my section last time, I think I would have been enormously reassured and wouldn't have found the whole idea so difficult to deal with.

My section saved my life and ds's - I hate complete placenta praevia - and like you I have still felt the need to justify myself when talking about it. Ridiculous, isn't it? And I consider myself a pretty strong person. I am having a second elective in two weeks' time and this one is out of choice.

I had a hideous labour with dd1, which ended in an emergency c-section under g.a. She nearly died and was in Nicu, then when she came out - mercifully fit and well - I couldn't get b/feeding going and ended up totally guilt-ridden and traumatised. Dd1 was traumatised too, and didn't sleep well and screamed the whol etime for several months.

With dd2, I still felt that I 'should' be going for a vbac even though I didn't want to, but, being very co-operative, dd2 made the decision for me by being breech and back-to-back. The result was a dream section with no pain, a quicker recovery, and fantastic breastfeeding that is still going on now she is 10 mo. And dd2 herself is more laid back and a better sleeper. And I am not depressed or guilty any more.

I'd second the idea of a birth plan. We specified that we could discover dd2's sex, and that she would not be taken off and cleaned up, but would be handed to us as she was born, still covered in vernix. I also slept with a special balnket for a week beforehand, so that dd2 could be wrapped in my smell until I could actually hold her, and I asked for skin-to-skin contact as soon as we got to recovery. The midwife was fab and did all these things.

Yes, being laid up in hospital is a pain, and the catheter, and those lovely stockings... but I'd have a planned section again, whereas I'd never try for another 'natural' delivery.

Rebecca,
"You are right, you did ask for benefits - I just didn't realise that you didn't mind if they were true or made up benefits. " is more than slightly inflammatory.

The last time I addressed you it was done with respect. And this is your response to me? I wonder why people think the NCT is biased toward "natural" delivery. Do you think it might be because you call us liars when we provide statements that support caesareans?

I just got home from dinner with some women from my prenatal group. One of us was not there because she just had her second baby. She went for a VBAC so that she could be up and around to take care of her almost two year old. The baby was born on Sunday. Five days later she is still in the hospital because of 3rd degree tears and they won't let her out until she can go to the toilet on her own. But, nobody tells these stories to prenant women considering natural childbirth.

Dear Uwila

I am flabbergasted and not understanding how you are reading my comments. The statement you have put in quotes is indeed inflammatory as I have already agreed & apologised for. I really can go no further with that. I have not called anybody a liar, which I think is rather an inflammatory thing to say. And I do indeed tell people of the risks of everything, unfortunately it is difficult to comment on classes they haven't been to.

To everyone else who has replied but not been so upset. I agree it is awful that women time and time again (and some dads too) feel the need to justify having an epidural/having a caesarean/having any pain relief/not breastfeeding etc. I hear it all the time and try to hear them out & let them know that as long as they are happy that is all that matters - how can you have failed at anything when you are sitting there with a baby??!

You are also right that the NCT does (I think) play a part in the expectations. It is very difficult and it upset me a lot when I started training and being part of the organisation. However the more information I find out the more I realise that the NCT is just trying to change the way things are on behalf of parents (who generally recognise the need to change some things about birth & parenting) which is a very difficult thing to achieve against a backdrop of the huge medical profession who would rather things stayed the same (some anyway). I am certainly not here to argue the NCTs case (I couldn't anyway - I can't 'put' things very well unfortunately!)

Becky
p.s. I really really hope I haven't come across as anti-Caesarean because I am not.

Uwila

I have been thinking about how I would react in classes if someone came to me with the kind of fears and information put forward on this board. I wouldn't have replied to them in the same way that I posted (my first posting) on this board and so I do apologise for possibly scaring some women who are having a caesarean.

I would like to clarify the figures that I gave in that posting. Most of the things I mentioned where the risks were higher for Caesarean where things that did increase from (for example) 1 in 10,000 to 2 in 10,000. So it is still a tiny number but is 'double' which is considered significant for researchers. However, the risks are still very very small & caesareans are now very safe. (I'm sorry I don't have exact figures to hand but hopefully you get what I mean).

I don't want to unduly alarm anyone,
Becky

One of the things I realise is that a woman who has any kind of fear or worries about a natural delivery could actually be so tense as to affect that natural delivery, so anxiety isn't something to be treated lightly. I do wish we would stop judging people on how they give birth, nobody deliberately puts their babys life at risk in order to do things the easy way.
There are no 100% safeguards whichever you choose.
For me a natural birth and no pain relief was a choice I made, felt comfortable with and was fortunate enough to have both times.
I'm sure that it would be good to reduce the number of mother having surgery in order to give birth, but not at the cost of labelling mothers failures and selfish!
The whole motherhood guilt express rides on and on.
I am NCT and very pro natural birth, but it is not my place to force that view on to someone else! Motherhood is god given right as is birth choice, it should be in the hands of mothers, it is after all THEIR body.

I'm a bad patient....I kept taking my hideous white surgical stockings off the minute anyone's back was turned! I decided twiddling my ankles and walking was better anyway - and not so unflattering.
Rebecca, this is SUCH a sensitive subject and I think it is hard for those who have never felt it to understand the level of hostility aimed at women who have caesarians for ANY reason - ie all the sneering at celebrities, which you even get at midwifery conferences (!) and NCT gatherings, I'm afraid. eg Patsy Kensit had a vaginal birth for her first child and severe pre-eclampsia and an emergency c-section for her second, yet I have seen her name constantly cited as someone who is lazy and spoilt and stupid and thus had a c-section. It's just so offensive. Compare that to the adulation and praise that Davina McCall, say, gets for talking about her homebirths. Heroes and villains, just for how you gave birth. How mad is that? Birth is such a minute part of life and motherhood.
I am aware of the cons of having a c-section, one of which is that, if you have a section by choice with your first child you do not have the benefit of a - usually - faster and less painful labour next time. But of course, there are no guarantees that the next time will be much faster or less painful, and also, if you are like me and have a lifesaving section first time and only plan to have two children then that's no benefit to me.

yes the guilt express does ride on and on (does it ever end?)

For what it is worth, I have not experienced the hostility directed at women who have caesareans - though I have experienced it as someone who has never managed to breastfeed (another very sensitive and emotional subject) and know how horrible it is.

This 'too posh to push' thing is just so irritating it degrades all women. I think the aim of everyone should be to raise everyone up to being equally fantastic that they have birthed a baby (whether vaginally, by caesarean or whatever) rather than stamping everyone down to being criticised for their choices.

HTH
Becky
p.s. I haven't been trying to force my views on others, I hope.

BTW I have now changed my 'nickname' as 'NCT teacher' seems to detract from the fact that I am just a mother of 3 children. And obviously, the NCT has rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way! (and so have I - sorry)

Becky

Becky, I found your views very positive and informative, especially as my sister, who is about to have her first baby, had found this thread really quite frightening.

Sorry Uwila, you can't keep threads to yourself on here!

And just to add, I have never heard anyone criticising anyone for having a c-section - no more than the criticism everyone gets when they have a baby - the 'ooh she didnt breastfeed, ooh she uses a dummy, ooh she had a csection, ooh she co-sleeps' etc.

Becky, I too think you've been reasonable on this thread and I think it would be a shame if this turned into a bash anyone for their views or type of birth thread. Sure, caesarians save lives and are necessary sometimes, of course. But since it IS rare for women to break their pelvis during vaginal childbirth I think it's fair enough to point that out to anyone reading. I agree with enid uwila, regardless of who started a thread you can't really tell anyone what to post or not post!

Thank you for posting these last 3 posts, I really do appreciate it.

Becky

I might be getting slightly off subject here, but why is it that we mums (not meaning anyone on this thread in particular ) make it harder for each other by being so judgemental? I've been on the recieving end of it esp. re not b/feeding, and am with no.2 because she doesn't eat a lot, and so I am determined not to do it myself and yet I still do every time I see a mum shoving a beaker of e-numbers (sorry, juice) at her child. Surely given that we seem to get blamed for 99% of society's ills we should give each other a break?

ionesmum, You are so right. It is really sad. If you think about it (and I do - a lot ) it all starts (as a mum) during pregnancy and birth. Just think of some of the more insidious terms: Failure to progress, incompetant cervix, Caesarean section (instead of birth), delivery (should be birth surely!)...a lot the terms that are used (including 'girl' eugh!)are negative - especially on the mother.

In my experience, a lot of women who have been on the recieving end of a lot of criticism or who feel bad about themselves turn that around to be judgemental on others which creates a bit of a vicious cycle. Its so funny that in most walks of life women get on brilliantly and are supportive apart from when it comes to something as emotional and amazing as pregnancy and birth.

Becky

and of course - parenting!

becky

Sure, of course anyone can post. But I think it's reasonable for the person who started the thread to ask people to stay on the topic.

Oh well. C'est la vie. No hard feelings. Glad if some people found it informative.

hi there

hello ladies.by reading your posts, ilisailisa just answered my question: can u have 4 c-sections.

y pb is that with dd1, they induced me for labour but after 36 hours nothing happened so emergency c-section for baby 9lb.6.
dd2 was elective c-section for 11lb baby.I must say that i dream of natural labour but that doesnt seem to be for me.besides after 2 c-section not allowed natural delivery.now baby 3 due dec will be elective section.I would totally advice anyone against c-section (i feel hypocrit saying that but i had no choice in the matter).

I planned my first caesar at 6 months..I asked for one.(fam history and I didn't want mine to go through it all)

You know when it's happening,it's easier and less stressfull for the baby for sure(proven)

I know it's not the natural way, but at the end of the day, it has absolutely no effect on bonding etc.

I have another coming in Dec.x

I am pregnant with my first baby,and I am gunning for a elective caesarean. This is due to the fact I have a morbid fear of childbirth, after seeing three, and cannot go through that pain. I have had my fairshare of ops and have a mental condition. Everyone is giving me hell for this (excluding my psycharitist). My husband is almost convinced it is a good idea. But I dread going to the hospital, as Iam met with MWs & Doctors who are not impressed with my decision. I am not stupid i have done my research, know woman who have the same procedure and have recovered from their operation. Also I am not breast feeding due to meds i have to go back on, which is also met with disaproval. Is there any point attending the Parenting Classes.Even the baby mags, have very little info on it, and they are not exactly positive. If I was too posh to push, i would have my privately, and not on NHS, and why go through a long painful labour. Someone help! Sorry to ramble on. I am new to the site.

welcome to mumsnet

if you have a genuine fear of childbirth (tokophobia, IIRC) then an elective c.s is probably a good idea

do you know what has triggered your fear?

there is info about elective c.s, you just have to dig a little deeper

what is it that scares you so much about birth?

Thanks for the info, that is a real help. what scares me about childbirth is the pain, and end up having an emergency section, after long labour. I don't do pain. I have had a serious illness and like i have said i have done my share of physical pain. I was unaware that there was such a phobia, i thought it was just me! I feel alot happier now.